It's A Good Time To Work For Uncle Sam

[Tempest]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/05/12/business/econwatch/entry5007862.shtml

 Quote:

At a time when the official unemployment rate is nearing double digits, and 6.35 million people are receiving unemployment benefits, the U.S. government is on a hiring binge. Executive branch employment — 1.98 million in 2009, excluding the Postal Service and the Defense Department — is set to increase by 15.6 percent for the 2010 fiscal year. Most of that is thanks to the Census Bureau hiring 102,000 temporary workers, but not counting them still yields a net increase of 2 percent in one year. There's little belt-tightening in evidence in Washington, D.C.: Counting benefits, the average pay per federal worker will leap from $72,800 in 2008 to $75,419 next year.

 Quote:

The final evidence that it's a good time to have a .gov e-mail address? Civilian government employees are set to enjoy a 2 percent raise. Not only are private sector workers are struggling to keep their jobs, but their earnings are stagnating and pay cuts are no longer uncommon.

Median income in US Households is $50,233.00. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

 

[Pablo]

Job "creation".

 

[JHZR2]

wow... I know a number of engineers who work for DoD who do not make this. We have had hiring freezes, and it is exceptionally hard to hire new people, despite economy, more work piling on, etc. Meanwhile, more constraints on pay, travel, support staff, etc. And that little wikipedia link is [censored] too. Youre comparing a semi-burdened rate to a pre-tax money receipt metric. I suggest you compare apples to apples when making points... how about for full-time workers, add in retirement, pension, the employer's contribution to SS, unemployment tax, and healthcare for the "typical" household? Im sure it will add $15-25k per, if all the numbers we are getting on the "real" cost of healthcare is true. Further, it is irrelevant what the household income is, considering what it takes into account. From the wiki site, "of these receipts are in the form of wages and salaries, but many other forms of income, such as unemployment insurance, disability, child support, etc., are included as well." So we are counting reitrees, unemployed folks, disabled folks and whatnot to a body of pure wage earners on the government data set? PLEASE. Further, we are counting a mainly professional set of people in the gov't case to the wide swath of everything from ditch diggers to brain surgeons... And let's not forget that all the business owners who pay themselves $25000 in wages and take a $100k "dividend" payment to skirt taxes are there in the average too...

 

[JHZR2]

Interesting also in your little wiki link that for HS dropouts, their wages increased 4.6% between 91-01, whereas for professional/doctorate wage earners, the increase was 4.1%.

 

[PandaBear]

 Originally Posted By: Tempest

Most of that is thanks to the Census Bureau hiring 102,000 temporary workers, but not counting them still yields a net increase of 2 percent in one year.

 Quote:

The final evidence that it's a good time to have a .gov e-mail address? Civilian government employees are set to enjoy a 2 percent raise. Not only are private sector workers are struggling to keep their jobs, but their earnings are stagnating and pay cuts are no longer uncommon.

Good, why don't you go work as a temp for the Census? Mr. Tempest.

 Quote:

 Quote:

the average pay per federal worker will leap from $72,800 in 2008 to $75,419 next year.

Median income in US Households is $50,233.00. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Can't distinguish the difference between the median of the nation vs Washington DC?

 

[Tempest]

 Quote:

Can't distinguish the difference between the median of the nation vs Washington DC?

I made no such comparison??

 

[Tempest]

 Quote:

Youre comparing a semi-burdened rate to a pre-tax money receipt metric. I suggest you compare apples to apples when making points... how about for full-time workers, add in retirement, pension, the employer's contribution to SS, unemployment tax, and healthcare for the "typical" household? Im sure it will add $15-25k per, if all the numbers we are getting on the "real" cost of healthcare is true.

You are correct, it was a quick comparison. The household gave advantage to the non-gov. worker as well.

 Quote:

The overall median personal income for all individuals over the age of 18 was $25,149[4] ($32,140 for those age 25 or above) in the year 2005.[5] The overall median income for all 155 million persons over the age of 15 who worked with earnings in 2005 was $28,567.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States So even if you tack on the benefits, there is a wide margin. Couldn't find median total compensation numbers.

 

[Patman]

I guess they probably also need to hire more people to process all the unemployment claims too! Which leads me to wonder if those people would then get laid off once the economy improves? (wouldn't that be ironic??)

 

[Tempest]

 Quote:

Rule of thumb for managers: Expect that about 25 cents of every dollar you spend on employee compensation will go to benefits, not salary. And the smaller the company, the smaller the payout. That's the word from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which just published its annual look at employer costs for staff compensation. Compensation costs varied by industry, occupational group, region, and whether employees are full or part time. But on average, enterprises with fewer than 100 employees offer pay of $12.95 an hour and total compensation of $17.16. Pay at the biggest outfits, those with a workforce of 500 or more, is $18.70 an hour, and total compensation is $26.93. When it comes to benefits, small businesses lag furthest behind the large ones in paid leave, allotting an average of 92 cents an hour for the benefit, or 42% of the $2.18 offered by large employers. UNCLE SAM'S SHARE. Rounding out the total compensation at small businesses is an average of $4.21 an hour for benefit costs. Here's the breakdown: 92 cents an hour (7.1% of total compensation) goes for vacation and other paid leave; 47 cents (3.6%) for supplemental pay such as bonuses; 89 cents (6.9%) for health, disability, and other types of insurance; and 40 cents (3.1%) for retirement and other savings. The biggest chunk -- $1.53, or 11.8% -- goes to Uncle Sam and his counterparts in the states for employee programs such as Social Security, workers' compensation, and unemployment insurance

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/0007/ib000714.htm

 

[PandaBear]

 Originally Posted By: Tempest

I made no such comparison??

You did. by putting the numbers together.

 

[Mr Nice]

Its not that difficult to get a job with Uncle Sam and with the economy the way it is, I'm sure many people don't mind working for less money to have a very stable job with the government. And its almost impossible to get fired once you are a full time employee. http://www.usajobs.gov

 

[JHZR2]

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/art...=realestate-buy

 Quote:

Those factors overwhelmed the considerable earning power of New Yorkers with bachelor's degrees — $69,200 per year, on average, according to PayScale.com — a figure rivaled only by those in Washington, D.C., and Bay Area locales, including San Francisco.

 Quote:

Along with fifth-ranked Providence, R.I., Cleveland (No. 8) is one of the smallest metro areas among the 10 most overpriced cities. Though both boast low home prices and living expenses, they're dragged down by high unemployment and relatively stingy salaries of $56,000, on average.

Wow... single bachelor's level salaries in NY averaging $69200, Providence and Cleveland averaging $56000... PER PERSON. Just tells you that it is all about how you draw the "control volume" for your test. This is telling a far different story than the "let's lump retirees, unemployed, disabled and incapable persons into a median salary chart" group that was shown on the first post.

 

[Mr Nice]

Yeah, all those numbers are totally unrealistic if they don't count all the people you mentioned above. Maybe they mean single educated professional men working a 'white collar' job.

 

[Vilan]

 

[moribundman]

 Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette

Yeah, all those numbers are totally unrealistic

A San Francisco MUNI bus driver can make 100 grand a year. Well, at least (s)he could a few years ago. I bet they can make more now.

 

[Shannow]

A fitter in an Oz power station can make well over a hundred grand a year...65-70 hours a week, be dragged out of bed by a phonecall at 2AM... Working with them for the last decade, you can see it taking personal and familial tolls.

 

[crinkles]

 Originally Posted By: Shannow

A fitter in an Oz power station can make well over a hundred grand a year...65-70 hours a week, be dragged out of bed by a phonecall at 2AM... Working with them for the last decade, you can see it taking personal and familial tolls.

+1 I am degreed and a "professional" and make a lot less than those fitters and many folks who drive trucks on site. But, my 37.5 hr workweek is just fine. in the mining boom in WA i once spoke to a husband and wife couple on the mine. they worked 3 weeks on 1 off. on the mine everything is catered for - no bills, food provided. EACH made $120k a year driving up and down the pit all day. clean money! (after tax gets stolen though)

 

[BrianWC]

Speaking as a former Dept of Ag and current DoD employee, these numbers are wild. I duno if this is total yearly cost of the average employee or if this is just salary and market adjustment, but... On the GS pay scale, the lowest grade employee that can make $75k according to the "rest of US" base pay+market adjustment rate would be a GS-12. Even then, for a GS-12 employee to make that, they'd have to be there for at least 4-6 years. To come into federal govt work as a GS-12, you would almost always have to have an advanced degree. Or you would have to be in some sort of career ladder position and maybe come in as a GS-11, which still, in a great many cases, requires an advanced degree. In the DC area pay tables, I see that a long-serving GS-11 can attain $75k. But still, the number of people having this pay would be relatively small compared to the majority of fed employees. Your average field office for an agency located in anytown US would have maybe 1-3 people making this pay for every 4-6 people making well to slightly below this. For example, when I worked for the US Forest Service at a ranger station, the ranger (in the forest service, ranger carries a different connotation than in the Park Service and other agencies) would have been the only person making this pay. There were 3 supervisory employees below him making in the mid to high $50k range, and each of them supervised 1-3 employees making in the high $20k to high $40k range. For the record, I'm now a DoD employee and don't make that with a grad degree, although it's certainly in my salary range eventually. But DoD pay scales can have a much wider pay range than most of the rest of the govt.

 

[BrianWC]

Okay, just read the story. Yes, this is the salary plus benefits. Different story entirely. I can see that average going up a lot quicker. My health insurance plan, the same that congress gets, is quite nice. Sorry! But hey, I know a lot of well-qualified people that turn their nose at govt work. The starting pay for many govt jobs is quite low compared to what they could make in the business world. Most folks that are attracted to govt work are there for the long-term stability. It's certainly what attracted me. When I was in the private sector, work conditions were bad and job security was non-existent.

 

[Dyoel182]

 Originally Posted By: crinkles

in the mining boom in WA i once spoke to a husband and wife couple on the mine. they worked 3 weeks on 1 off. on the mine everything is catered for - no bills, food provided. EACH made $120k a year driving up and down the pit all day. clean money! (after tax gets stolen though)

One of my best friends has a job like that out in the electric windmill farms. The company pays for everything and even pays his travel to get him away for that one week. His "bonus" check last year was more than I make in regular pay all year.