Italian Tuneup really reduces carbon deposits?

[LaCocina27]

Originally Posted By: Emanuel
Originally Posted By: LaCocina27
Originally Posted By: Emanuel
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I know when I drove it like I stole it on a properly warmed up engine I can feel the difference in my butt Dyno.

Also I was doing a lot of short trip driving with my Journey when new and it had a pretty carboned up tail pipe from it and I drove it to Florida and back for vacation (2,000 km's about), and it was like a whole different car while there and when I got it back along with a clean tail pipe. Then it went back to short trip driving and felt different in a matter of no time again with more black soot in the tail pipe.

Now I'm at a new job with lots of daily highway miles and it feels good again. More responsive, peppier you could say and the tail pipe is clean.

Not scientific but has to be carbon.
So you are saying there is no need for minutes of redline and long highway drives are enough?


How long and how fast are key.

I was averaging about 115MPH in Upstate NY in regions so remote no radio stations came in. For a long time. THEN did normal speed moves with fast (90-ish, about normal for Upstate NY) and hard driving for two hours or so.

Never redlined except for short periods of time on hard acceleration.

You could really get on it for about a half hour AFTER FULLY WARMED UP and achieve an ITU. Maybe a little bit longer. A fast, LONG highway drive could achieve the same.
I think you could archieve the same results in 3rd gear if you have a 5 speed or in 2nd in a 4 spd auto at lower speeds


Possible... but driving it like you stole it also does wonders.

The water de-carboning trick is a good one as well and everyone has their own slightly unique way to do it. After an ITU is best, since the engine is HOT.

 

[tightwad]

Originally Posted By: LaCocina27
Originally Posted By: tightwad
Cadillac has released a recommended procedure to 'blow out' the Northstar V-8. Basically ,you put the car in second gear and accelerate up to eighty miles an hour and then let off the gas and let the car decelerate on it's own back to twenty miles an hour and repeat. This is intended to free up the rings more than to remove carbon from the cylinders. These engines had thin, low-tension rings that were prone to sticking. Part of the reason for the Northstar's reputation as an oil burner.


Northstar engines had bigger problems than that... (Head bolt studs.)


LOL Yes, it took them 15 years to finally deal with that problem. My 2001 didn't secumb to the head bolt issue, but it drank oil. My 2007 has the resigned head bolts and the new design piston rings. It may be my last car.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Originally Posted By: tightwad
Cadillac has released a recommended procedure to 'blow out' the Northstar V-8. Basically ,you put the car in second gear and accelerate up to eighty miles an hour and then let off the gas and let the car decelerate on it's own back to twenty miles an hour and repeat. This is intended to free up the rings more than to remove carbon from the cylinders. These engines had thin, low-tension rings that were prone to sticking. Part of the reason for the Northstar's reputation as an oil burner.
Yep that was a fun part of owning a Northstar. The amount of smoke they throw if that hasn't been done in a long time is funny too. Get a lot of dirty looks. My 2000 Deville was pretty trouble free until I sold it with 186k miles all on Dexcool too. Drank oil at an alarming rate for about 100k+ of those miles no matter how many Itilian tune ups I gave it. Any type or weight. It was no match for the Northstar. Mexico can make nice cars.

 

[Nick1994]

I had a 97 Camry with 194k miles that I drove up to Montana in one sitting other than stopping for gas and food, took 20 hours. Lots and lots of mountains, that car was really underpowered (I have a 00' now, it is too) and it was revved high in the mountains, the entire journey was mostly at 80 mph. Then drove around in Montana for the week and drove back down. It was noticeably peppier afterwards.

 

[Merkava_4]

Not a good idea.

 

[Eddie]

I remember the carburetor engines when you did an Italian tune up. At first there was a brown cloud from the exhaust and as the speed whet up you could see hot glowing bits of carbon coming out of the tail pipe.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Anyone with a DPF diesel needs to be quite familiar with that process. When I still had my gear, it would get more sluggish and use more fuel until I have it some good, hard runs.

Why wait for the computer to regen and dump a bunch of fuel to make the system hot? Flooring it does the same thing and you get a heck of a lot more satisfaction.

When I hadn't done it in a while, the amount of smoke that came billowing out (mostly soot, I imagine) was pretty impressive for an exhaust with a filter. Once I'd been beating on it enough, especially towing, hard acceleration generated little noticeable smoke.

 

[JFAllen]

I recently purchased a 1992 Pulsar GTiR. After a number of hard thrashes in the hills, getting the turbo glowing red hot it's running much better.

Always note I get better fuel economy on the way home from a snow ski trip (where I cut a few laps of the mountain road just for fun.) Nothing quite like a 30kms hill climb at full noise to wake an engine up. (Once again turbo glowing bright red on my Toyota Caldina back in the day.)

Also from experience with stationary engines (diesel generators.) If you let them run a low load for weeks on end, you start to have soot and gum-up issues. We use to attach 90% duty load cell (basically a big electric heater) to them (these were
Also from VW, they not significant;y less carbon buildup on Golf GTI 's than on other Golf models, as the owners tend to thrash them more

My favourite one was an only 1988 3.0L Nissan Skyline that had been sitting a while. Got it running on 4-5 / 6 cylinders. Went out front and laid a big skid. the ld lump was purring like a kitten afterwards

 

[DoubleWasp]

I want a Pulsar GTiR.

 

[LaCocina27]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I want a Pulsar GTiR.

Yeah me too!

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Emanuel
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I should also add. I regularly red-line it on the highway at least once a week a few times when passing etc. followed by hi-revs engine braking to reduce speed back to the limit and I have done this with all my vehicles and they have all lasted the test of time and pass smog tests with original catalytic converters etc. I also don't use Top-Tier fuel any longer, just a quality fuel system cleaner just before an oil change.
Oh I didn´t read this.

But isn´t regular redlining bad for the engine? Do your cars last more than 400 thousand kilometers being heatlhy treating them this way?


My Santa Fe died at 535,000km with this regiment. The Camshaft broke from a forging defect in an area between the cam-lobes and I was driving normally on the highway when it happened. It was using no oil at this point.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Emanuel
Oh I didn´t read this.
But isn´t regular redlining bad for the engine? Do your cars last more than 400 thousand kilometers being heatlhy treating them this way?

My Santa Fe died at 535,000km with this regiment. The Camshaft broke from a forging defect in an area between the cam-lobes and I was driving normally on the highway when it happened. It was using no oil at this point.


That sounds like fatigue failure, otherwise this camshaft would have been going on and on ......

 

[StevieC]

I think it was a defect from the factory because the way it broke it looked like the metal didn't cast properly at the factory before it was machined into a camshaft.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Originally Posted By: Emanuel

Would you consider a 5 minute 3500 rpm run an italian tuneup?


I would consider that an Italian idle. It's gotta be WOT for a sustained period. If you're afraid of the speeding ticket, choose a lower gear.

And no, running to redline is what the engine was designed to do; otherwise they would leave the factory with a lower redline. So a properly maintained motor should be able to run to redline for it's entire life. If you never run it to redline, it won't be able to do so when asked, and may fail at that point, earlier than it should have if driven properly within it's entire performance envelope.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Emanuel
Oh I didn´t read this.
But isn´t regular redlining bad for the engine? Do your cars last more than 400 thousand kilometers being heatlhy treating them this way?

My Santa Fe died at 535,000km with this regiment. The Camshaft broke from a forging defect in an area between the cam-lobes and I was driving normally on the highway when it happened. It was using no oil at this point.


That sounds like fatigue failure, otherwise this camshaft would have been going on and on ......


Definitely metal fatigue. You don't get failures at 535,000 Km [332,500 Mi] due to metallurgical issues (it would have broken much earlier) so if there was actually a metallurgical defect it had no role in the failure.

Assuming a cast camshaft, the area you describe as the fail point is exactly at an un-machined area (neither lobe nor bearing) and might be as-cast with potential parting lines, etc. Often the first place a crack starts. Racers and picky engine builders will grind, file or polish such areas before assembly.

 

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted By: tightwad
Cadillac has released a recommended procedure to 'blow out' the Northstar V-8. Basically ,you put the car in second gear and accelerate up to eighty miles an hour and then let off the gas and let the car decelerate on it's own back to twenty miles an hour and repeat. This is intended to free up the rings more than to remove carbon from the cylinders. These engines had thin, low-tension rings that were prone to sticking. Part of the reason for the Northstar's reputation as an oil burner.


This is what I have always done as an ITU. Run hard up to redline, then coast down, rinse-repeat

 

[fenixguy]

My wife's '00 Civic had a slight knock under load when her mother turned it over to her at ~105,000. After we were married and I took over maintenance duties, I dumped a bottle of Seafoam in the tank and filled up with E0 gas. I drove through that tank like I was trying to blow it up. It cleared it right up and had what seemed like twice the power.

Seriously though, I tend to be very easy on my vehicles but every once in a while I like to run the dog-snot out of them to make sure they can.

 

[SHOZ]

I bought a Festiva a guy had and never drove it on the highway. Started using it for open road 60 mile one way commute on the Interstate. When I first started using it it had a hard time hitting 70 mph and forget about passing a semi in a headwind. A month of flat foot driving cured it and it ran like a top for the next two years.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Emanuel
Oh I didn´t read this.
But isn´t regular redlining bad for the engine? Do your cars last more than 400 thousand kilometers being heatlhy treating them this way?

My Santa Fe died at 535,000km with this regiment. The Camshaft broke from a forging defect in an area between the cam-lobes and I was driving normally on the highway when it happened. It was using no oil at this point.


That sounds like fatigue failure, otherwise this camshaft would have been going on and on ......


Definitely metal fatigue. You don't get failures at 535,000 Km [332,500 Mi] due to metallurgical issues (it would have broken much earlier) so if there was actually a metallurgical defect it had no role in the failure.

Assuming a cast camshaft, the area you describe as the fail point is exactly at an un-machined area (neither lobe nor bearing) and might be as-cast with potential parting lines, etc. Often the first place a crack starts. Racers and picky engine builders will grind, file or polish such areas before assembly.


I agree, if it were a metallurgical issue the cam would've failed probably withing first 100k kilometers.

I think that "exercising" an engine is a good thing, but once the miles start to pile up, the high RPM runs are starting to be detrimental because of the increased clearances and more uncontrolled part behavior. Lowering the RPM ceiling by 500-1000RPM on those high mileage engine is probably a prudent hing to do.I would still run them WOT, just not to the red line.

 

[HemiHawk]

I'm pretty sure in my VWs owners manual it suggests running the car in like 4th gear on the highway at a certain RPM at some interval. I guess the idea is to help with the carbon buildup from direct injection. I don't do that, but will occasionally run the engine spiritedly. In my mind running the engine like that will do more wear/damage than just having the carbon cleaned up at whatever interval. No reason to beat on the car to prevent some cleanable carbon.