It Doesn't Matter

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On this site, it's great that users try extensively to find the best filter for their application, but for a moment, they should stop and re-think their "game plan."

It is highly unlikely that using one filter or another, at least for most drains < 10,000 miles/1-yr, will ultimately increase/decrease engine life significantly.

From now on, I'll use the least expensive and/or most convenient filter I can find for < 10,000 mi/1-yr OCIs, as I have yet to find evidence proving the usage of a high-efficiency filter to significantly improve my engine's life.
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So ...it looks like Fram is out of your life as long as an ST filter is avaiable.

Sounds good to me
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I'll use the PureOnes for my longer hauls.
 
quote:

Originally posted by The Critic:
as I have yet to find evidence proving the usage of a high-efficiency filter to significantly improve my engine's life.

Agreed.
Yet, there are more "important" reasons for paying extra for an oil filter.
Have you heard about the concepts of "cheap insurance", "sound sleep at night" and "you get what you pay for".
They are all highly irrational, but lots of folks here (not me) will gladly pay tripple for the illusive claims written on the filter box.
It's all about getting that warm feeling inside when you're picking up a "quality" part for your baby.
Your car gets only the best.
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I don't disagree with your basic premise, but I think there is more to filters than just filtering efficiency. I would buy one that at least meets oem specs for size, bypass design, and ADBV material.
 
Few people need synthetic oil. Few, if any need nice expensive filters. You dont need good tires, any rubber will keep you on the road just fine as long as you drive the speed limit. No matter what gasoline you buy, your car will probably last as long as you plan to own it and then some.

There are wants and needs. Basic oil and filters will get you by without a doubt. But some of us want the best, or what we believe will perform better. I'm sure my car will last just as long using a ST vs a Wix, but.. I like having that extra peace of mind. It's only an extra $4 every few months is the way i see it.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Roger:
I would buy one that at least meets oem specs for size, bypass design, and ADBV material.

Isn't how all filters are?
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The all meet the OEM specs of the application they're designed for.
 
Supertech filters are not always available in the sizes that I need them. In addition, given that Walmart is an additional 10 mi round trip from me, I would have to purchase more than just a single oil filter to justify the increased car operation expenses, which in the big picture, may easily be $0.30/mi.

Also, I have an unproven theory regarding oil filters that I could use some comments on. I personally believe that filtering out the smaller particles is less important, contrary to the opinions of others. I stand by this view as the higher-efficiency, more restrictive filters have a tendency to have a shorter service life, thus possibly allowing bypass mode to occur during the longer drains, and successfully negating your efforts in a quest for finer filtration. In addition, OEMs have always designed filters to have lower efficiency ratings, but with higher-flow and high capacity in mind by using greater amounts of less restrictive media. Thus, I will continue to use filters of the recommended size containing designs allowing for maximum flow and maximum amounts of low restriction media. This leads to my choice of the Supertech E-Core for the 3614 applications and the Fram Extra Guard for the Honda/Acura applications. The Fram Extra Guard does offer significantly more media than the lower-end Champ filters, but the Champs E-Core offers greater flow than the Fram Extra Guard in 3614 apps, which is why I consider it better. Please feel free to disagree and correct my statements.

Vad: I see your point. The warm “fuzzy” feeling of having good quality parts as cheap insurance, is certainly valid reasoning for spending extra $$$ on higher-quality parts, regardless of whether or not they’ll bring you longer engine life. The cheap insurance concept is valid, btw, and I don’t disagree with you there. But there has to be a line drawn, somewhere, between excessive and wasteful and cheap insurance. I chose to draw the line at 10,000 miles/1-yr with the lower-end filters, and 5000 miles/6-mo with conventional oil, and 10,000 miles/1-yr with synthetic oil. That’s my view of cheap insurance. Another person may draw their line at 7500 miles/6-mo for conventional oil, and 12,000 miles/1-yr with synthetic oil. That’s their choice. I prefer a shorter interval, but their plan may not affect overall engine longevity either.
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Roger: Using the OEM size is always a given, at least in my book. Don’t know about others.
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As for the bypass design, it has been stated by various filter manufacturers that the real-world differences, especially with regards to affecting the overall engine life, are negligible between the threaded-end and dome-ended bypass valves. Lastly the material of the ADBV is a consideration, especially for the longer drains. The silicone ADBV may be beneficial for the extremely long drains, as nitrite tends to harden. OTOH, for drains not exceeding 10,000 miles/1-yr, it logically seems unlikely that a nitrite ADBV would have hardening issues, and I haven’t heard of any reports of nitrite ADBV functionality issues in such a short time frame, at least on BITOG. Of course, Honda does allow for filter changes to be extended to 2-yrs/20,000 miles, and VW/Audi does allow for up to 2-yr/30,000KM intervals, so the silicone ADBV is probably more important to them.

Sxg6: $4 every few months will add up in the long run. Suppose you drive for 50 years, and you follow this practice. Per my calculations, $4*3*50=$600. Think of how long $600 will feed you when you retire, when your monthly check isn’t the same amount as it was before.
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quote:

Originally posted by Big O Dave:
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Michael, how long did it take you to type this last post?


Not very long.
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just use the cheapest filter you can find. they are all good enough. i like supertech because walmart is frequently in my driving path, also they are cheap filters on cost.
 
Even the least efficient filters gain efficiency as they become more restrictive from trapped dirt. How a given individual spends his own money is his own business. I simply have doubts that my using higher priced "boutique" filters promising in the box graphics superior protection will really result in longer engine life than using OEM-quality filters, presuming the filters aren't white box, cottage industry product from Lower Slobovia. Driving style will influence ultimate engine life far more than the price paid for an oil filter in my opinion.
 
I think it's rather like arguing about what toothpaste is best. Maybe, say, Crest has more fluoride than Colgate, but in reality it doesn't much matter which you use. Just brush often and you'll be fine.

I'm sure though that somewhere there's a "Jim is the Toothpaste Guy" website where people spend weeks preaching about the evils of Aquafresh and how all right-thinking individuals use Arm & Hammer since the extra 1000 ppm baking soda keeps your teeth lubricated properly. And they have the UTA (Used Toothpaste Analysis) to prove it.
 
quote:

I'm sure though that somewhere there's a "Jim is the Toothpaste Guy" website where people spend weeks preaching about the evils of Aquafresh and how all right-thinking individuals use Arm & Hammer since the extra 1000 ppm baking soda keeps your teeth lubricated properly. And they have the UTA (Used Toothpaste Analysis) to prove it.

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but getting back to Michael's beliefs here ....I think that he's confusing, as many do, engine "life" with engine "health". Now for our 3k/3m types ..it probably doesn't matter one way or another. Use a current spec'd oil and a contemporary filter ...smooth sailing for 150-250k.

OTOH can you say that any old thing will lead to the same result when compared to a better filter? Suppose you examine both and find ..that although they both made it to some imaginary finish line, that they were radically different in condition
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Used toothpaste? ewwwwwwwe.......

I change my oil once a year and when the OLM tells me. I want a filter that will last the whole interval.

I can not tell you which will last and still be a viable filter for the possible harmful chunks at the end of the interval - all the time giving excellent flow.

That said I have used most good filters with no issues. I have not used the orange can of death since the early 90's when living the Volvo life taught me otherwise....now I'm using the Fromda filter from Honeywell on the Ody.

On the old Volvo 245 with dual remote - the best was two Ford FL-1A's. I loved those.

Truthfully I didn't like the SDF on the Volvo 850. I think it was a bit restrictive. I've used Mann and Napa gold with no issues - Now I'm using EaO and think this expensive filter is the KING. Lemme do a UOA. Seems to flow great, by the sound of things.
 
Some people will say that 3 months or 3000 miles is outdated, but I've always stuck to that. After my parents came back from their vacation last March, I went and got Coastal 10w30 and an STP (Champ Labs) oil filter for their 99 Buick which had sat in the garage for 5 months. It has an oil life monitor, but when I saw how black the oil was when it drained out:
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. Then after I was done all it was required of me was to reset the monitor. The longest I've gone btween changes is 4500 miles, as time constraints. But now with using Havoline (thanks to all of your testimony
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) I won't worry in case of going over by a few miles.
 
I buy based on price and convenience, but I try to avoid buying anything that seems poorly constructed to me. So Fram is definitely out, and I'm not a Purolator fan either.
 
Out of the box, I've had a defective PureOne and a defective Fram, and I think those defects (everything rattling around loose inside) were possible because of the spring design. Fram and Purolator use the same basic spring design, and I prefer the coil spring on a Wix-type filter. I also don't like how thin the Purolator metal is. It's unlikely to cause a problem in operation, but I don't like the feel of the metal flexing so much while I'm installing or removing the filter.
 
I have not seen anyone to post proof of what size particles are filtered by ST or Fram or anyone. Wix prints their beta ratios, which is good. Also, I am certain that no one has proven that it does not matter whether particles smaller than X size are filtered. We know that the rubber ADBV's can fail from heat etc.

In short I see no compelling reason to say that I should not spend a minimum of $10 on an oil filter. Especially since that $8 premium (over the cost of a Supertech) is only .4% of my gas budget for my 7500 mile OCI.

Oh, one more thing. Here is a link to a thread that discusses some studies that tried to determine how filtering ability relates to engine wear. Basically, I read the results as saying that a better oil filter equals less wear. All the way down to 2 microns.

Oil filter studies

[ May 30, 2006, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Winston ]
 
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