Is this oil sufficient for cold winters?

[Clevy]

As a rule red line products tend to run on the thicker side of the grade. According to what I've read here in this forum the 0w-20 is actually closer to a 0w-30. Red line does make great products. I have yet to use something made by them that I didn't like however it availability the problem.
Liqui-moly is German made and I've emailed them regarding their products and they don't re-formulate for the north american market,so it's the same stuff as what they use in Europe,which keeps oil to a tougher standard then we do here.
I've used the liqui-moly 0w-40 in my mustang and all I've got is anecdotal info regarding it's performance. I am happy with it and bought it again,bu
t I'm going to try the caterham thin/thick mixes for next year to use up all my stock.
Do you know what spec you have to adhere to?
I'm looking at the liqui-moly 0w-40 right now. It says:
API SM/CF;ACEA A3-04,B4-04. Then just below it reads:
VW502 00/505 00;MB229.3;BMW Longlife-98;Porsche A40

So if any of these specs apply to you your good to go with it.
I've got no real info as far as red line is concerned. I use their gear oil in my Harley,as well as their engine oil in various vehicles. Never had a problem with it other than cost and availabilty. I wish Canadian Tire still stocked it.

It is also a long drain oil so I believe it will easily do a 15000km interval however I would test it at 10000kms just to see where you stand.

 

[SubLGT]

And Mobil 1 0W-40 MRV is 31,000.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: boarding_dude
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Welcome. I'm in Saskatoon so I know exactly what your going through. First off go and get an oil heater that you can plug in with the block heater. The magnetics are great however you know how well our roads get plowed so you would have to find a way to secure it so it doesn't get ripped off from running over the snowbanks.
Motul is great oil. Are you still under warantee. If so you gotta use whatever they tell you as far as what spec it has to meet. A 0w-xx is an absolute must here for winter.
I'd go the motul route personally because I hate mobil however I'm sure mobil 1 0w-40 meets the Audi oil spec.
Here in Saskatoon the napa carries the German made,imported liqui-moly brand and I guarantee they make an oil that meets your particular spec. I've just picked up 2 5 liter jugs of their 0w-40 and a jug of their 10w-40 with mos2 already added.
Since it's near impossible to find the jugs of mobil 0w-40 it will cost less to go the liqui-moly route and the oils themselves are stellar.
If your in Saskatoon pm me.


Hey thanks for the welcome. No im not under warranty anymore. Motul doesn't
have a 0 weight oil that suits my car but they said they were coming out with a 0w-40 soon. I went to napa to get the liqui moly 0w-40 but they only have 5 L jugs. I need about 12 liters and didn't want to have to buy 3 full 5L jugs. Why did you get a jug of 10w-40 along with your 0w-40? Are you mixing them? Thanks for the help!

I bought the 10w-40 because I wanted to try it as a summer oil in my mustang. It already contains the mos2 additive that they also sell separately and I wanted to give it a shot,I never got a chance to use it this past season so I will have to wait til next year.
12 liters for an oil change. Wow. With that kind of sump you should be able to do 30000km runs per oil change on a long drain oil easily. I know the liqui-moly 0w-40 is a long drain oil and retains it's tbn.
Caterham is a member here who really know his stuff when it comes to oil. If you can find what he recommends I suggest trying out his suggestion. And devlac should be able to be sourced out in 5 gallon pails,which would net you 2.5ish oil changes per pail.
With that much oil in the sump I wonder is a by-pass filtration system would be beneficial to you. It would extend the oil change interval,help with cooling the oil(turbo?),add more capacity and free you up with less maintenance effort. A by-pass system with your sump size could extend your interval beyond 50000kms. I've read threads where tractor trailers were on a 50000 mile oci with a by-pass system with similar sump sizes. So if they can do it with how dirty diesels get inside a gasser should easily be able to get that kind of mileage on the oil.
Dnewton will hopefully post in here. He has so much data I would like to know his thoughts on this

 

[MarkStock]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
First welcome to BITOG.

The hands down best oil choice in a heavy 30wt (HTHSV 3.5cP+) oil for your application would be the Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w30 (nee Esso XD-3 0W-30).
With a MRV of 14,900cP this PAO based oil has no equal unless you want to run a 0W-20 oil which is what I do in the winter months in my Bimmer (oil temp's never get above 80C).


Given he does 5km each way, which 0w-20 would you recommend?

I think that would be my approach in his situation.

 

[RiceCake]

Insert me chuckling here at people saying you really need a pan heater, water jacket heater, and battery heater, along with the most specifically spec'd full synthetic 0W-'s to survive -45 weather...

I started my car with only a basic OEM block heater in -48 weather with Castrol GTX 5w30 in the sump, and a FRAM orange can at the time. Like I said: car doesn't like it, but its not the end of the world. It won't blow up but it'll fight if you have anything but the best battery on board.

boarding_dude, here's the best advice you'll get. Check your manual. German cars like yours tend to call for very specific oils because they often recommend very long oil change intervals. If you can find a 0W- weighted oil that works with your car, and fits whatever specifications your car calls for, golden. Since you haven't stated what your car specifically needs, or what your oil change interval is, its growing exceedingly dangerous to arbitrarily suggest oils for you.

Also if you value your warranty if you have one, you'll heed any advice on oil types in the manual.

Since the speculation, however, is your car calls for a 5W-40 oil, your best option is a 0W-40 with spec's suitable for imported cars. Mobil 1 0W-40 is that oil. German Castrol 0w30 is an older spec, but still very rugged and matches a lot of BMW and other German long-life oil specifications. These are your best two off-the-shelf 0W- oils that should satisfy what your car needs.

Beyond that if you want to buy a boutique oil like Motul, there's plenty out there, and they cost appropriately a ton, but almost any should offer a really rugged full synthetic that should be in the 0W- category. If they actually are licensed to meet the specification your car calls for is unknown before researching, but most big names should handle it fine. AMSOIL 0w30 is an oil like that. You can get a flogging for it not being "certified" in your engine but I wouldn't call it a bad oil by any means.

If however people here wanna argue the absolute symantics, enjoy. Fact is if you're running a 0W- oil in the first place you're already well off enough on a good start at combating winter. Niggling over values is a pursuit of perfection that won't make the entire world come to a standstill.

Red Line is good oil though, most of your boutique oils come from AMSOIL, Red Line, Liqui-Moly gaining popularity, Motul of course, and a few others out there. Mostly catering to high performance markets they cost a lot but should be fairly good synthetics regardless.

Edit: You're out of warranty, I missed that. In your specific case, if I was in your shoes, I'd be dumping Mobil 1 0W-40 in the sump and seeing how it goes, even if you dislike the brand. Its worth feeling it out because the cost for it is usually right, unless you find a hookup on something else.

And by hookup I mean buying something like Liqui-Moly 0W-40 for less then your limbs and first born child. Understandable if you don't wanna buy 15L though, if you don't wanna pay the extra to have to store it around. You could, theoretically, buy 10L and add 2 quarts of something else...but playing chemist like that is kind of a no-no for most guys for a full oil change interval.

Check out what Red Line has and if you can get your hands on it though. I wouldn't be jumping on a 0W-20 oil without testing oil pressure considerably, its negligent to even suggest hopping down to 0W-20 from a 40 weight oil without ensuring the vehicle maintains proper oil pressure under all the driving circumstances it will experience.

However, if you have 0w30 in the sump when its cold out, the engine operating temperature tends to coincide with ambient temperature. Its colder out so a thinner oil at operating temperature is totally fine. A 40 weight, like what I expect your car calls for, is designed around the mantra of "if this guy drives this car, flat out, on a baking hot Autobahn, will the oil thin out too much?". That's hard to get on a -30 day in SK when you can barely drive 30km/h without dying, so you're probably more then safe with either a 0w30 or a 0W-40. A 0W-20 is an experiment, you'd be stupid to do that uncontrolled.

Or ignore my post and listen to people deciding what oil is best for you based on a chart of MRV values...just trying to help here.

 

[skyship]

OK, I think we have concluded that because of the rather cool minimum temperature, this car will have to use an 0 something oil, but one thing that can make a difference is the oil filter, so I hope that it is a real genuine one from an Audi dealer and not an Internet copy as the oil pressure relief valve needs to function correctly on very cold starts.
The most economic heater to buy and install is a sump heater and the biggest one you can fit at the bottom plus see if there is room to fit a few smaller pads around the sides, because if you get the sump nice and warm it does heat the block.

 

[RiceCake]

I won't deny that, I agree with skyship, get a good oil filter. OEM I'm not sure is necessary, I buy WIX filters for everything though. Get something better then a bargain sale at [censored] Tire to say the least. Else they stick into open bypass easily and the drain back valves get hard and stick open and drain out when the car is off. Basically, the filters cease working as filters, sometimes, not always, but [censored] ones can.

Also, quoting the obvious and it sounds like with an Audi you garage it, but anyone parking on the street, garage if you can. If not, point it away from the wind. It at least helps keep the engine bay from being turbocooled and fed a nice funnel of snow to get impacted with which will ruin your day quick. Even more if you short trip, I've seen engine bays packed solid with ice as a result of partial melting-freezing and snowblowing into the rad. Not fun stuff.

 

[Clevy]

Skyship. The cost of mobil 1 0w-40 here in Saskatoon is a minimum of 15 bucks a quart. The liqui-moly 0w-40 is 50 bucks for 5 liters. So your comment above doesn't really apply,the one where exchanging limbs or first born child,which is why I suggested it since it cost less per liter than mobil 1,and can be found in quarts as well.
And why is a pan heater so funny to you. We have mornings here that are equal to -60 once a windchill is factored it. I've gotta let my vehicles idle and warm up for half an hour before the steering wheel will even turn.
How does today's mobil 1 0w-40 compare to liqui-moly 0w-40 I wonder. Caterham could translate it for us laymens. The liqui-moly is cheaper per liter than the mobil 1 and it's not watered down for our market,unlike most euro-spec oils.
Caterham.....help translate the differences between the 2 oils. I know the née mobil 0w-40 has raised it's pour point temp by a fee degrees,and it no longer has any real synthetic group 4/5 in it anymore. Whereas the liqui-moly is the same formula here as it is in Europe. I wonder if,due to it's superior basestocks,it would be more fluid in our crazy cold winter here

 

[RiceCake]

You can't figure out who you're arguing with, let alone what you're arguing for or about, and you default to saying CATERHAM will solve everything for you?

Okay... I live in SK. I know -60 doesn't happen here. I know Mobil 1 0W-40 is $11.99, full price, at Cruddy Tire. I also know windchill doesn't factor in to a garaged car or even really a car on the street. Windchill is how cold it feels as a function of wind speed over ambient, its not the same as ambient temperature. Also you say Liqui-Moly isn't "watered down" yet people buy tons of Mobil 1 and talk about it on these forums here as the next best thing after German Castrol, so I guess you're suggesting they're all suckers overpaying for garbage. You also mention the pour point which is a figure, not an overall description of the quality of the oil...at all.

But if you can actually get Liqui-Moly oil for $10 a quart, that sounds awesome. I don't actually believe it and the OP doesn't want to buy in 5 quart containers though.

So whats your point beyond to try to appeal to one guy on a huge forum you seem infatuated with? You're not even listening to what the OP said by now.

 

[Clevy]

I'm not arguing. Chill out bud. I know caterham is king of the spec sheet and could explain what I admittedly don't know. So take your attitude and direct it elsewhere.
Not sure what Canadian tire your at but today the mobil 1 0w-40 was 14.99. So if your finding it for 11 buy it all,because it doesn't exist. Even walmart is at 14 bucks,which I saw again,today.
And I bought a 5 liter jug of liqui-moly 0w-40 last week at napa for 50 bucks. Hard to believe,I know.
Infatuated. Hehehe. Sure bud. I do like that caterham,along with dnewton take the time to explain things to guys like me who don't know. So mister expert,since you know it all why don't you explain the differences then. Eh.
If your in Saskatchewan you must be an import.

 

[mechtech2]

Liqui Moly is a great oil, but oddly, it does NOT have the company's moly in it!

At least you can zero in on the 0w-X oils for you cold starting needs.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
First welcome to BITOG.

The hands down best oil choice in a heavy 30wt (HTHSV 3.5cP+) oil for your application would be the Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w30 (nee Esso XD-3 0W-30).
With a MRV of 14,900cP this PAO based oil has no equal unless you want to run a 0W-20 oil which is what I do in the winter months in my Bimmer (oil temp's never get above 80C).


Given he does 5km each way, which 0w-20 would you recommend?

I think that would be my approach in his situation.

Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-20 with it's MRV of 10,400cP is the lightest oil available at extremely cold temp's so that would be my choice for a 5 km commute.
But if he does take the car on a longer drive it may be too light at operating temp's. If our new memmber wants to truly optimize his oil viscosity installing an oil pressure and/or oil temp' gauge will allow him to do so.
BTW Imperial oil who formulate both the Mobil 1 0W-20 and Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w30 in Canada have given their blessing to blending the two oils. A 50/50 blend will give you a light 0w30 which I'm sure will provide a more than adequate hot operating viscosity at least during the winter months in Saskatchewan.

 

[boarding_dude]

Sorry I didn't post up the oil specifications for my car. This was the part I got kinda confused about. In my manual from 2004 it only says use a quality 0w30 that meets ACEA C3. However, the dealerships and other oil change places always put in 5w-40 now.

On my subscription to ALL DATA this is what it says for oil specifications:

A - High lubricity multi-grade oils, specification VW 500 00
The date given after the VW specification must be not earlier than 10.91.
All Temperatures SAE 5w30 / 5W-40 / 10w30 / 10W-40
B - Multi-grade oils, specification VW 501 01
The date given after the VW specification must be not earlier than 10.91.

All Temperatures SAE 5W-50 / 10W-50 / 10W-60
15°C to -30°C SAE 5w30 / 5W-40
15°C to -15°C SAE 10w30 / 10W-40
-15°C to 40°C and above SAE 15w40 / 15W-50 / 20W-40 / 20W-50
Multi-grade oils, specification API-SJ, API-SL, API-SM
Only use these grades of oil if the approved grades are not available.


As well, the Motul that everyone is running in their audi meets 50200-50500 so I have all different suggestions/requirements to sort out. At least I am not under warranty and don't have to be quite as specific.

In regards to my oil capacity, my car takes 9.5 quarts but I keep the extra around because the audi s4's are known for requiring an extra quart every few thousand kms. It states this right in the manual.

Thanks again for all the input. I am trying to track down a filter while I decide the oil I want to get. I have called audi here in Saskatoon 10 times but can't actually talk to anything but an answering machine. While I was at canadian tire I seen that fram filters were $30.00 which seemed steep (I also don't trust this filter-was just checking price).

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Skyship. The cost of mobil 1 0w-40 here in Saskatoon is a minimum of 15 bucks a quart. The liqui-moly 0w-40 is 50 bucks for 5 liters.

How does today's mobil 1 0w-40 compare to liqui-moly 0w-40 I wonder. Caterham could translate it for us laymens. The liqui-moly is cheaper per liter than the mobil 1 and it's not watered down for our market,unlike most euro-spec oils.
Caterham.....help translate the differences between the 2 oils. I know the née mobil 0w-40 has raised it's pour point temp by a fee degrees,and it no longer has any real synthetic group 4/5 in it anymore. Whereas the liqui-moly is the same formula here as it is in Europe. I wonder if,due to it's superior basestocks,it would be more fluid in our crazy cold winter here

Mobil 1 0W-40 routinely goes on sale at Cdn Tire for about $8.79/L, at least here in Ontario it does. Is LM 0W-40 cheaper than that?
The thing about LM is that we don't have the MRV or CCS spec's, nor the HTHSV but what we do know is that's it's VI of 181 is not as high as the SM Mobil 1 0W-40 (HTHSV 3.6cP, VI 187. If I had to guess I suspect that the Cdn made, PAO based Mobil 1 SM 0W-40 with it's MRV of 21,700cP has better extreme cold spec's than LM 0W-40.
But as I've mentioned previously the Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w30 (HTHSV 3.5+cP, 176 VI) is the better choice and at operating temp's it's no lighter than Mobil 1 SM 0W-40.

 

[RiceCake]

Wow, 20W-40 even suggested. Nice they cover all the bases.

And I know people here afraid 10w30 is bad for a 5w30 car.

If Audi keeps giving you the push, find a NAPA. You can get NAPA Gold filters, which are WIX filters, for a decent price. Getting an OEM filter shouldn't be hard but, hey, dealerships are dealerships. I wouldn't know where else in Toon Town you'll find other "premium" grade filters, like the ones AMSOIL or Royal Purple sell. Or a Purolator PureOne which a lot swear by, but, I've honestly never seen one of those on the shelf in Canada yet.

I'd be taking CATERHAM's advice on that though. A 0w30 would probably be perfect for you in winter, if you can find a distributor around with that oil. With it being a diesel engine oil it should probably be cheaper too, mostly because its in a different market, but the stuff is fantastic (I've run its older cousin, ESSO XD-3 0W-40, in everything from cars to snow blowers, it won't say it meets the specifications your car calls for but as an oil it doesn't dawdle around and will easily meet them. With you being out of warranty you still want a rugged synthetic to survive the longer oil change intervals of that car though. A lot of name brand "synthetics" aren't really up to that job).

 

[CATERHAM]

boarding_dude, if you're concerned about meeting OEM spec's, forget Motul and just use the Cdn made M1 SM 0W-40. Other than the options I mentioned there's nothing better for your climate.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
I wouldn't know where else in Toon Town


"Running Back To Saskatoon", always liked that song by Burt and da boys!

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: boarding_dude
.........In my manual from 2004 it only says use a quality 0w30 that meets ACEA C3. However, the dealerships and other oil change places always put in 5w-40 now. ....................


"ACEA C3 oils are Top Tier lower SAPS1 lubricants. They are designed for use in high performance gasoline and light duty diesel engines where advanced aftertreatment systems such as Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs) and Three Way Catalysts (TWC) are used."
http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/Sequences/ACEA-C3-10.html

If I were you, I would run a 0w30 in the winter, one with a HTHS viscosity of at least 3.5, as specified by ACEA C3.
Something like Total Quartz Energy 9000 0W-30, which has a 3.5 HTHS vis and a MRV of 20,800. Or one of the 0W30 HDEO oils mentioned earlier.

http://www.total-us.com/lub/lubusa.nsf/VS_OPM/AFABF65FD32B0BF2C125732F006D719D?OpenDocument

 

[dparm]

Having previously owned a 2005 S4, I will tell you that car needs an ACEA A3/B4 oil. You should stick to things on the VW 502/505 list if possible. That motor is extremely sensitive to the proper oil choice.

Renewable Lube 0w30 would be a very good choice. It has the proper HTHS (3.6-3.8) and has an excellent viscosity index to assist with cold starts.

For off-the-shelf stuff, Mobil 1 0w40 is good but pricey up where you are. You could run Mobil Delvac 1 0w40 instead, it's almost identical.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Insert me chuckling here at people saying you really need a pan heater, water jacket heater, and battery heater, along with the most specifically spec'd full synthetic 0W-'s to survive -45 weather...

I started my car with only a basic OEM block heater in -48 weather with Castrol GTX 5w30 in the sump, and a FRAM orange can at the time. Like I said: car doesn't like it, but its not the end of the world. It won't blow up but it'll fight if you have anything but the best battery on board.


Agreed. My old LTD went half a million kilometres before being totalled. All it ever saw was the block heater and GTX 5w30. I didn't do the orange can, mind you. It was running an AC Delco filter usually.

Pan heaters and synthetics and so forth might be "nice to have" but they're far from necessary in most applications. Ironically, my old Audi had no block heater, but a factory oil pan heater. I have used oil pan heaters and do like them. The warning about the magnetic ones with respect to ground clearance and street clearing is worth repeating. Saskatoon, for instance, is terribly with leaving snow ruts on the road. A stick on heater is probably better there than a magnetic heater.