Is this amount of crud in an oil filter normal? What’s in your filter?

[Astro14]

Thank you. What did the oil intake screen look like? Please post the (non-ersatz Mahle) filter pics when the time comes. Which Volvo is the 234K motor?

This is the 2004 XC 90. The screen looked great. The filter looked good when I drained the oil for this change/service.

The car is in Boston with my youngest, so I’m not certain when it will next get an oil change but I do plan to cut the filter to see how it looks after a good long run on HPL.

The engine uses no oil, despite the miles and this level of carbon.

 

[hemioiler]

Positive displacement oil pump ... same flow through the filter if the pump is not in pressure relief. The oiling system is typically 15 times more restrictive than an oil filter. A filter with a few more PSI of dP won't really matter to any engine.

The oil pressure in my truck has gone up significantly. It used to idle sometimes in the high 20's, low 30's on factory oil (5w-20) + mopar filter. After switching to a Fram XG2 and running 5w-30 it idles at 40-ish psi. I've never seen 20's in the 3 years I've been running fram/royal purple filters + a 30 weight oil. Not sure what to make of that, I was told we don't have a true oil pressure sensor on the 5.7 hemi but that could be wrong too.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The oil pressure in my truck has gone up significantly. It used to idle sometimes in the high 20's, low 30's on factory oil (5w-20) + mopar filter. After switching to a Fram XG2 and running 5w-30 it idles at 40-ish psi. I've never seen 20's in the 3 years I've been running fram/royal purple filters + a 30 weight oil. Not sure what to make of that, I was told we don't have a true oil pressure sensor on the 5.7 hemi but that could be wrong too.

Going from 5W-20 to 5W-30 is why the oil pressure increased. The oil filter flow resistance will not show an effect on the oil pressure unless: 1) The oil pressure sensor is located before the filter, or 2) The oil pump is in pressure relief - which it will not be at a hot idle. With hot oil, most oil pumps won't even be in pressure relief near redline.

 

[nate379]

Where did you find Delo LE? That's some old stuff.

 

[Merek]

Where did you find Delo LE? That's some old stuff.

That's what I was wondering, I read where the OP said 5w40 400LE in his first post, I'm guessing it's the synthetic version. I actually have a sealed jug of it that's silver and 5w40 and SM rated. I remember that I used this oil when I first got my mower with the Briggs opposed twin that it runs great on it. I'm a big fan of Delo but mostly use the XLE but they're all great.

It seems like for 5w40 they have the XSP now. If anything that Delo has cleaned some of the crud out of that engine. I'm not a Volvo guy and don't really know what oil they recommend for their vehicles but wouldn't be afraid to run that oil in there at all as long that it's one of them that has either SM or SN rating.

 

[VolvoZ]

Delo 400LE SYN oil clearance few years ago at Walmart. This oil was mostly intended for a small Ford Tractor, but it’s SM rated so usable in other equipment. I believe Volvo at the time called for SM rated oil. The miles are adding up on this S80. Another 1500 miles to go until the next oil change, at which time the filter will have 2000 miles on it.

 

[nate379]

That's what I was wondering, I read where the OP said 5w40 400LE in his first post, I'm guessing it's the synthetic version. I actually have a sealed jug of it that's silver and 5w40 and SM rated. I remember that I used this oil when I first got my mower with the Briggs opposed twin that it runs great on it. I'm a big fan of Delo but mostly use the XLE but they're all great.

It seems like for 5w40 they have the XSP now. If anything that Delo has cleaned some of the crud out of that engine. I'm not a Volvo guy and don't really know what oil they recommend for their vehicles but wouldn't be afraid to run that oil in there at all as long that it's one of them that has either SM or SN rating.

SDE is regular, XLE is semi synthetic and XSP is full. At least with the ones I deal with.

LE was discontinued around 2015.

 

[Merek]

Delo 400LE SYN oil clearance few years ago at Walmart. This oil was mostly intended for a small Ford Tractor, but it’s SM rated so usable in other equipment. I believe Volvo at the time called for SM rated oil. The miles are adding up on this S80. Another 1500 miles to go until the next oil change, at which time the filter will have 2000 miles on it. View attachment 185534View attachment 185534

That looks just like the jug that I have, at the time the XLE jugs were blue. I didn't check the date but I know I've had it awhile now. It's an excellent choice use with confidence, just shake the bottle before use.

Some of the least consumption I've had with my Civic is the XLE 10w30 which I still have a few jugs left, at the time you could get it from Walmart for around $13 but the LE 5w40 was like $19-$20, probably around 2010-2013 prices.

 

[Merek]

Delete

 

[VolvoZ]

The crud is a nothingburger. After 20 years and 220k miles there will be deposits left in the engine, the same as scale forms in a kettle. In 99.7% of the cases it’s totally harmless.

Use an engine cleaner (idle 10 mins and drain type of an affair) if you want to scratch an itch. I did, as I’ve shared above, and despite new oil turning pitch black in 10 minutes of idling before it was drained, the engine performance/idling/sound fuel economy were NOT affected by the cleaning.

Or do nothing beyond timely oil swaps per manufacture’s schedule. The cheap filter is likely fine, but, what if its flow rate is not in spec with the factory one?

Very well could be a nothingburger, but this is a lot of crud. It’s crud that is being pulled through the pump screen and oil pump. Fortunately, most of it is being filtered. I’m simply not accustomed to seeing anything like this on the other vehicles that i have maintained over the long term (particularly since this filter was in-use only 4K miles).

The Auto Parts International oil filter that came off(which by the way looks very much like a Premium Guard filter) appears to flow well based on how the pleats were perfectly straight. Have 6 more on-hand and will continue to use these for this S80. I have had a couple badly designed oil filters that were clearly collapsing due to their restrictive nature (STP was one of them).

 

[VolvoZ]

I suspect that when you do drop the pan, it’s going to look a lot like this engine. 234,000 miles, run mostly unconventional. Engine doesn’t burn any oil however, look around each one of the bolts, the lighting on this one is bad, but you can see the ton of carbon that was built up.

I cleaned this one up by hand, and stuffed rags in and around the crank so that any stray gunk that I cleaned off would not end up lingering in the engine.

Thanks for posting photo and providing info @Astro14 . Curious why you pulled the pan on the XC90? And what do you think of the XC90 with the 2.5T in terms of performance? Been thinking of getting into a P2 XC90 myself at some point. I like the idea of the 2.5 for its relative simplicity and familiarity vs. the I6 engines in the newer 90’s. The 2.5T in the S80 is merely adequate for acceleration, so i cannot imagine that it would be any better in an XC90.

 

[Astro14]

Thanks for posting photo and providing info @Astro14 . Curious why you pulled the pan on the XC90? And what do you think of the XC90 with the 2.5T in terms of performance? Been thinking of getting into a P2 XC90 myself at some point. I like the idea of the 2.5 for its relative simplicity and familiarity vs. the I6 engines in the newer 90’s. The 2.5T in the S80 is merely adequate for acceleration, so i cannot imagine that it would be any better in an XC90.

The XC 90 is with my daughter in Boston. My over arching philosophy with that car was to preclude the need for any service while it’s up there.

So, it got all new cooling system hoses, new vacuum hoses, complete PCV system, a new water pump, new timing belt and pulleys, engine seals and oil pump seal, rebuilt alternator, and starter, air conditioning leak fixed, new engine mounts, and new shocks, bushings, strut mounts, spring seats, ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, and struts. Also got new brake hoses, pads, rotors, and parking brake hardware. On the inside, it got a new heater core, some cosmetic repairs, new bulbs in both the climate control module, and the dashboard.

So, removing the sump allowed me to replace the seals that were internal to the sump itself, there are several O-rings in there. I also replaced the oil cooler with a larger version, and that got new seals as well.

The 2.5 T is a solid, reliable engine, but the XC 90 is not particularly fast. Her car happens to be front wheel drive, which helps just a bit because of the lower weight. In her case, I value, reliability and safety over performance. She happens to love her XC 90. It allows her to take several friends and get it out of Boston for the weekend - a recent trip to go apple picking in New Hampshire, several road trips to go hiking for the day. There are upcoming ski trips that are already planned.

 

[VolvoZ]

The XC 90 is with my daughter in Boston. My over arching philosophy with that car was to preclude the need for any service while it’s up there.

So, it got all new cooling system hoses, new vacuum hoses, complete PCV system, a new water pump, new timing belt and pulleys, engine seals and oil pump seal, rebuilt alternator, and starter, air conditioning leak fixed, new engine mounts, and new shocks, bushings, strut mounts, spring seats, ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, and struts. Also got new brake hoses, pads, rotors, and parking brake hardware. On the inside, it got a new heater core, some cosmetic repairs, new bulbs in both the climate control module, and the dashboard.

So, removing the sump allowed me to replace the seals that were internal to the sump itself, there are several O-rings in there. I also replaced the oil cooler with a larger version, and that got new seals as well.

The 2.5 T is a solid, reliable engine, but the XC 90 is not particularly fast. Her car happens to be front wheel drive, which helps just a bit because of the lower weight. In her case, I value, reliability and safety over performance. She happens to love her XC 90. It allows her to take several friends and get it out of Boston for the weekend - a recent trip to go apple picking in New Hampshire, several road trips to go hiking for the day. There are upcoming ski trips that are already planned.

It’s ready to keep going another couple hundred thousand miles! That’s great. Solid vehicle. Thanks for the detail on the sump parts. I did not know there was a larger version available.

 

[Astro14]

It’s ready to keep going another couple hundred thousand miles! That’s great. Solid vehicle. Thanks for the detail on the sump parts. I did not know there was a larger version available.

The idea - the hope - on the car is that it will last her through her MD/PhD, which is an 8 year program. Ambitious goal, but I have every service record since the car was new. It's been well cared for, and like I said, burns no oil. So, at least the engine should last that long. The paint is good, some interior wear, but zero rust and zero mechanical issues. Everything works.

The larger oil cooler was made for the diesel version of the car/engine. It's a bolt on. I had planned to add it to the V70R, but decided to skip the sump work (you have no idea how much I regret that decision) since the PCV system was so clean.

So, I had the cooler on the shelf, and added it to this car, just in case the young driver decides to push it a bit, there is extra cooling capacity for the oil.

Volvo Engine Oil Cooler - Mahle Behr 376751791

Volvo Engine Oil Cooler - Mahle Behr 376751791

www.fcpeuro.com

 

[levi]

Don’t buy cheap filters when really good filters are cheap.

That's quotable!

 

[Urshurak776]

Positive displacement oil pump ... same flow through the filter if the pump is not in pressure relief. The oiling system is typically 15 times more restrictive than an oil filter. A filter with a few more PSI of dP won't really matter to any engine.

We need to make this a sticky, or a tag line at the top. A BUNCH of people on BITOG don't seem to understand it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

We need to make this a sticky, or a tag line at the top. A BUNCH of people on BITOG don't seem to understand it.

The positive displacement oil pump ... the most misunderstood component of an oiling system.

 

[Urshurak776]

The positive displacement oil pump ... the most misunderstood component of an oiling system.

Absolutely....without question....

 

[VolvoZ]

So the S80 is at 226.5K miles and have started doing the refurb (pcv system,timing belt, hoses, coolant, motor mounts, etc). Just pulled the filter (which has 3500 miles on it) and checked the pleats for crud. Looks much better than the first filter that came off (that had 4000 miles on it). Left side is the dirty side, right side is “clean” side of filter material. Still some crud being shed by the engine.

Next up was pulling the PCV “flametrap” or effectively a catch can/baffle that is attached to the engine. The engine ports had a yellow slime partially blocking the bottom port along with lots of black crud. Cleaned the ports out with stiff wire, wire brushes, and various solvents. Given how the liquid solvents were backing up and not flowing into the engine port initially, it was clogged. Also cut open the baffle box to see what it looks like inside (pretty gross-see pic). Pretty sure that short trips, conventional oil, and longish OCI contributed to the mess.

It’ll be a couple weeks before this is put back together again with new parts. Still curious as to why the first filter change showed such a large release of crud. Will update on progress.

 

[Plawan]

Acquired a fairly well maintained 2004 Volvo S80 turbo from a friend. It was reasonably well cared for in terms of oil changes during friend’s ownership (oil changes ranged from 3K-8K miles intervals) from about 50K miles to 219K miles. I think he used Mobil1 early in ownership, but then started “letting it go” with syn-blends and whatever the garages that he went to used. So at 219K i changed the oil with a cheapie API brand cartridge filter and 5.5 qts of Delo 400LE CJ-4/SM Synthetic 5W-40. Car now sits at 223K miles, so i decided to just do a filter change, add Rislone HM treatment, and put in a new cheapie API filter (got these from RockAuto for about $1.40 each). The idea here was to see what the Rislone HM will do in the next 2000 miles, vs. what just the motor oil was able to clean up in 4000 miles just completed. I was quite surprised at the amount of crud collected in the filter pleats at 4K miles (keep in mind, the filter pics are before adding the Rislone). I’ll be adding another 2K miles now that the Rislone is in there, and will be inspecting the new filter to see what the Rislone “pulls” out of the engine. I‘m guessing it won’t be pretty.

Is this amount of crud normal for 4K miles?View attachment 185040View attachment 185041I don’t usually deconstruct my filters to look at the pleats (and crud) up close, but i could see the build up of crud settling on the bottom of the filter before even pulling it apart. Some of the ”cleaner looking” pleats probably look that way because i used a pick to pull out the crud before cutting open the filter. Anyone else care to post their filter crud (Along with any other info about the car, oil used Rislone.

Acquired a fairly well maintained 2004 Volvo S80 turbo from a friend. It was reasonably well cared for in terms of oil changes during friend’s ownership (oil changes ranged from 3K-8K miles intervals) from about 50K miles to 219K miles. I think he used Mobil1 early in ownership, but then started “letting it go” with syn-blends and whatever the garages that he went to used. So at 219K i changed the oil with a cheapie API brand cartridge filter and 5.5 qts of Delo 400LE CJ-4/SM Synthetic 5W-40. Car now sits at 223K miles, so i decided to just do a filter change, add Rislone HM treatment, and put in a new cheapie API filter (got these from RockAuto for about $1.40 each). The idea here was to see what the Rislone HM will do in the next 2000 miles, vs. what just the motor oil was able to clean up in 4000 miles just completed. I was quite surprised at the amount of crud collected in the filter pleats at 4K miles (keep in mind, the filter pics are before adding the Rislone). I’ll be adding another 2K miles now that the Rislone is in there, and will be inspecting the new filter to see what the Rislone “pulls” out of the engine. I‘m guessing it won’t be pretty.

Is this amount of crud normal for 4K miles?View attachment 185040View attachment 185041I don’t usually deconstruct my filters to look at the pleats (and crud) up close, but i could see the build up of crud settling on the bottom of the filter before even pulling it apart. Some of the ”cleaner looking” pleats probably look that way because i used a pick to pull out the crud before cutting open the filter. Anyone else care to post their filter crud (Along with any other info about the car, oil used, etc)?View attachment 185042

No not normal as far as I’m concerned. I like Rislone it works. I’d just use the correct oil and the rislone until it cleans up. That will be slow and easy since its apparently sludged up. Verify that it’s just sludge (soft) squeezing it with fingers though to be sure. If it’s something else you probably have bigger issues.
You could spend a bunch of money on an oil designed to clean but, I mean, it’s a 220k+ car.