Is this a clutch on a Toro Timemaster?

[Donald]

In getting it ready for a new spindle I took off the pulleys on top of one of the blades.

The top pulley driven by the engine seems also to be heavy metal flywheel. The pulley under under it drives the other blade and is plastic.

It almost seems like the top pulley is held tightly against the plastic pulley like a clutch and clutch plate. The bottom of the metal flywheel pulley had slivers of plastic stuck to it. I picked them off with fingernail. I left one at 6:30.

The two pulleys have sleeves in the center. So if the top surface of the plastic pulley wears and sticks to the bottom of the flywheel pulley, at some point they may slip as the sleeves prevent the two pulleys from getting closer together.

I think I need to replace the plastic pulley so it will again be very tight with the flywheel pulley.

Maybe I am misunderstanding and while there were slivers of plastic on bottom of flywheel pulley it's not a clutch and clutch plate situation.

In the picture the flywheel pulley on right is up side down.

 

[FowVay]

That's not a clutch. That mower has a timed bladeset which is driven by a toothed belt. You have one of the gears that the belt rides on. Check out this diagram to see if that helps with the understanding. #6 is listed at the blade brake.

 

[Donald]

That's not a clutch. That mower has a timed bladeset which is driven by a toothed belt. You have one of the gears that the belt rides on. Check out this diagram to see if that helps with the understanding. #6 is listed at the blade brake.

View attachment 283670

I have seen the parts layout at PartsTree.

So the slivers of plastic on the bottom of the flywheel pulley are there because they get hot and are touching each other?

 

[FowVay]

I'd say that they're obviously from wearing on the brake. I have no idea what the serviceable limits are of the plastic toothed pulley but maybe you can compare it to the other side and see if the plastic pulley looks to be severely worn. Those pulleys might be interchangeable and you could swap them out to get extra service life between replacements. Is that #21 piece in good shape or has it come apart?

 

[Donald]

Good idea to swap the plastic pulleys. #21 is just a guard and is in good shape.

 

[Donald]

I'd say that they're obviously from wearing on the brake. I have no idea what the serviceable limits are of the plastic toothed pulley but maybe you can compare it to the other side and see if the plastic pulley looks to be severely worn. Those pulleys might be interchangeable and you could swap them out to get extra service life between replacements. Is that #21 piece in good shape or has it come apart?

So something is odd. I got the new spindle. I thought it would come with the shaft. But looks like you need to remove old shaft and install in new spindle.

In doing so it sure looks like the problem was the top section of the shaft was worn and loose in the upper bearing in the spindle. The spindle looks to have a bearing at the top and bottom. Both bearings feel free (they turn as expected) and not loose (don't move around).

Look at shaft picture and screen shot of new shaft. There is a section of the shaft that smaller in diameter just before the section where it's flat on two sides. That smaller in diameter section is slightly loose in upper bearing

 

[mk378]

That happened because the shaft started to spin inside the bearing now it is ruined you need a new shaft.

 

[Donald]

That happened because the shaft started to spin inside the bearing now it is ruined you need a new shaft.

Yes. I agree. But turning the upper bearing with my finger it feels fine. It turns and not loose. Of course turning the bearing with my finger is not the same as it spinning at 3600 RPM or whatever RPM the engine runs at.

 

[mk378]

It looks like this assembly depends on the top nut being fully tight and the spacer not being broken (as happened in the machine in the video on your other thread) to hold everything together. Usually the shaft is precision ground so it is an interference fit in the bearing but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

When you buy the "spindle assembly" you get a new housing two bearings and the spacer but I guess not the shaft because the shafts are different left and right and that would mean stocking two kinds of what most people would consider a spindle assembly (with shaft).

 

[Donald]

It looks like this assembly depends on the top nut being fully tight and the spacer not being broken (as happened in the machine in the video on your other thread) to hold everything together. Usually the shaft is precision ground so it is an interference fit in the bearing but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

When you buy the "spindle assembly" you get a new housing two bearings and the spacer but I guess not the shaft because the shafts are different left and right and that would mean stocking two kinds of what most people would consider a spindle assembly (with shaft).

I need to get a new shaft locally as my lawn really needs mowing.

Do I need to worry about damaging the bearings in new spindle tapping in the new shaft?

 

[Donald]

The new spindle will go in from the bottom. There will be some force on the top bearing to push it out I assume. And of course not damage the bearing while it's being tapped in.

A big washer with diameter of shaft maybe.

Or the force needed to push new shaft in is no big deal?

It looks like this assembly depends on the top nut being fully tight and the spacer not being broken (as happened in the machine in the video on your other thread) to hold everything together. Usually the shaft is precision ground so it is an interference fit in the bearing but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

When you buy the "spindle assembly" you get a new housing two bearings and the spacer but I guess not the shaft because the shafts are different left and right and that would mean stocking two kinds of what most people would consider a spindle assembly (with shaft).

I'd say that they're obviously from wearing on the brake. I have no idea what the serviceable limits are of the plastic toothed pulley but maybe you can compare it to the other side and see if the plastic pulley looks to be severely worn. Those pulleys might be interchangeable and you could swap them out to get extra service life between replacements. Is that #21 piece in good shape or has it come apart?

The new shaft will go in from the bottom. There will be some force on the top bearing to push it out I assume. And of course not damage the bearing while it's being tapped in.

A big washer with diameter of shaft maybe.

Or the force needed to push new shaft in is no big deal?

 

[mk378]

Find a pipe or socket that the shaft just fits into and use it to support the inner race of the top bearing. Force on the inner of the bottom bearing will be transferred by the spacer to the top and then to your support.

 

[Donald]

Find a pipe or socket that the shaft just fits into and use it to support the inner race of the top bearing. Force on the inner of the bottom bearing will be transferred by the spacer to the top and then to your support.

So the new shaft arrived. It's black steel. It slides in all the way by hand. It's not loose or anything but I could push it in by hand without any real force.

What will prevent it from turning in the bearings?

 

[Donald]

I'd say that they're obviously from wearing on the brake. I have no idea what the serviceable limits are of the plastic toothed pulley but maybe you can compare it to the other side and see if the plastic pulley looks to be severely worn. Those pulleys might be interchangeable and you could swap them out to get extra service life between replacements. Is that #21 piece in good shape or has it come apart?

Take a look at my recent post where I say the new shaft fits easily in new spindle. Just slide in there with two fingers. What's to prevent the shaft turning on the bearing vs the bearing turning? Maybe the pulleys and top nut tightened will make the shaft and bearings turn as one?

The old shaft had to be ponded out of the spindle with a hammer yet new shaft slides in with two fingers. That seems a bit odd. Parts of the old shaft had worn to a smaller diameter but other parts of the shaft were very tight in the spindle.

 

[FowVay]

It looks like the flat on the spindle serves the purpose of timing the blades. It is going to lock the geared sprocket in place. The 1:2 spacers obviously seat on the inner race of the upper and lower ball bearings and are secured in place by the properly torqued nut (no. 8). The outer race of the two spindle bearings should fit tight enough to hold them in place once pressed in. The inner race of the bearings is going to seat on the spacers and will spin with input from the belt driven spindle. The belt sprocket should have a extended should on the side with the slots that should sit on the bearing. The spindle shaft should also have a small shoulder on it to seat against the bottom inner bearing race.

That's how it looks to me. Assemble one off of the mower without a blade installed and see if that isn't the design. Good Luck!

 

[Donald]

I am getting really frustrated in that I just did not see everything that needed replacing when I took it apart. Now I noticed the pulled/brake only has the flats in the inside hole towards the top and so the pulley turns on the new shaft vs turning the shaft. So another parts order for the pulley brake.

 

[super20dan]

these mowers are a joke. no one in the commercial biz will touch them any more

 

[Donald]

these mowers are a joke. no one in the commercial biz will touch them any more

Well this is for personal use. I bought it used so it's had some use. Anything more than a basic lawn mower (engine & blade) will need some maintenance.

Not sure it's geared for professionals.

But I would argue it's the best mower of its type that Home Depot or Lowe's sells.

 

[tbm5690]

Well this is for personal use. I bought it used so it's had some use. Anything more than a basic lawn mower (engine & blade) will need some maintenance.

Not sure it's geared for professionals.

But I would argue it's the best mower of its type that Home Depot or Lowe's sells.

It's in a class of it's own unless you want to pay even more for a Turfmaster. That being said, it's also the best because it's the only one of it's type at HD or Lowe's. I love my Timemaster but it isn't perfect.

 

[Donald]

It's in a class of it's own unless you want to pay even more for a Turfmaster. That being said, it's also the best because it's the only one of it's type at HD or Lowe's. I love my Timemaster but it isn't perfect.

From my lessons learned if there is a problem with spindle, carefully examine the shaft. If its the engine driven side carefully examine the flywheel/brake/pulley.

I have a hunch the brake action when you let go of the blade handle does a job on the flywheel/brake/pulley wearing a hole with two flat edges round.