Is there really a difference between different battery grades from retailers?

[nobb]

As we know, battery manufacturing has largely consolidated to a few major players. You can often tell by looking at the casing who made the battery. Afterwards, the individual resellers just put their own branding on.

Many retailers have different grades of the same battery group size: cheap, medium, premium. I'm wondering, if the casing is identical between these different grades, chances are it's coming from the same manufacturer. Does it really make sense for them to have a different manufacturing line for each different grade? Or are these pretty much physically the exact same battery, but maybe they just stamp a lower CCA rating for marking purposes on the "cheaper" one and vary the warranty guarantee? Would be curious if anyone has hooked up a battery tester and see if different grades of seemingly identical batteries actually test different.

As an example, I'll use Canadian Tire and these batteries:
Cheap: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/certified-group-size-34-battery-600-cca-0103403p.0103403.html
Medium: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/...34-78dt-battery-800-cca-0103478p.0103478.html
Premium: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/...size-34-battery-800-cca-0103485p.0103485.html

 

[Hall]

Look at the weights of the different grades. Isn't the main difference in the quantity of lead inside and this is what determines the CCA and Ah, I thought. As for warranty length, say with Walmart, I suspect the batteries are in fact the same and you're just "buying" a longer warranty.

People will claim different materials are used, etc, etc but from a manufacturing standpoint, that doesn't make sense. A manufacturer can buy 3x the amount of (1) part and getting better pricing vs buying 1/3 the number of part A, 1/3 of B, and 1/3 of C. Then you have multiple production runs (and the switchover for parts) if you make three different grades.

 

[nobb]

Look at the weights of the different grades. Isn't the main difference in the quantity of lead inside and this is what determines the CCA and Ah, I thought. As for warranty length, say with Walmart, I suspect the batteries are in fact the same and you're just "buying" a longer warranty.

Good call. Yes the cheapest Certified brand is ~2 lbs lighter, but the two Motomaster lines are pretty much identical weight. So between the two Motomasters, I really think it's likely the exact same battery and I really doubt it's worth the cost and logistics to have two different manufacturing lines vs just changing the sticker.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Even if the two better ones are the same, you're getting an extra year of free replacement for about $17 with the more expensive one. Probably worth it.

 

[nobb]

Even if the two better ones are the same, you're getting an extra year of free replacement for about $17 with the more expensive one. Probably worth it.

I don't even care about the warranty anymore, it's a pain to claim with Canadian Tire. They hook it up to their tester and it has to fail for them to approve. Which isn't that easy to do unless you've really abused it. I had a battery that was literally leaking acid and it was a hassle trying to get them to warranty it because the machine still tested it as ok.

 

[Nukeman7]

Look at the weights of the different grades. Isn't the main difference in the quantity of lead inside and this is what determines the CCA and Ah, I thought. As for warranty length, say with Walmart, I suspect the batteries are in fact the same and you're just "buying" a longer warranty.

People will claim different materials are used, etc, etc but from a manufacturing standpoint, that doesn't make sense. A manufacturer can buy 3x the amount of (1) part and getting better pricing vs buying 1/3 the number of part A, 1/3 of B, and 1/3 of C. Then you have multiple production runs (and the switchover for parts) if you make three different grades.

I have done some hands-on research on the WalMart Everstart batteries manufactured by East Penn. Specifically, for the common Group 24F size, the $70 Everstart Value battery is identical in weight and actual (measured, not labeled) CCA to the $110 mid-level Everstart Plus battery. The only difference is a 1 year warranty vs. a 2 yr. warranty. The highest level flooded lead acid battery is the $140 Everstart Maxx which weighs ~6 lbs. more, actually measures higher CCAs and has a 3 yr. warranty.

 

[rijndael]

I don't even care about the warranty anymore, it's a pain to claim with Canadian Tire. They hook it up to their tester and it has to fail for them to approve. Which isn't that easy to do unless you've really abused it. I had a battery that was literally leaking acid and it was a hassle trying to get them to warranty it because the machine still tested it as ok.

That's why I still buy Costco batteries, even if the warranty isn't as good as it once was.

I walk in, put it on the counter, and tell them it's bad. Then we start the swap or prorate.

 

[Hall]

Yes the cheapest Certified brand is ~2 lbs lighter

Is that the "advertised" weight or actual weight ? I don't believe it would be allowed to say a product weighs more than it actually does, while weighing more (within reason - call it "manufacturing variations") is okay.

Specifically, for the common Group 24F size, the $70 Everstart Value battery is identical in weight and actual (measured, not labeled) CCA to the $110 mid-level Everstart Plus battery. The only difference is a 1 year warranty vs. a 2 yr. warranty.

It was you or maybe 1-2 other people who have dug into this quite a bit (I've looked at East Penn's catalogs as well) that are why I said you're getting the same physical battery and you're just "buying" a longer warranty, not a different part.

 

[Nukeman7]

Is that the "advertised" weight or actual weight ? I don't believe it would be allowed to say a product weighs more than it actually does, while weighing more (within reason - call it "manufacturing variations") is okay.

I purchased the 24F Plus battery for my wife's Honda and a week later purchased the 24F Value battery for my Frontier. Both batteries actually weighed 38 lbs. and tested at 760-765 CCAs. My neighbor bought the 24F Maxx battery a month later for his Pathfinder and it weighed 44 lbs and tested at 830 CCAs.

It was you or maybe 1-2 other people who have dug into this quite a bit (I've looked at East Penn's catalogs as well) that are why I said you're getting the same physical battery and you're just "buying" a longer warranty, not a different part.

Certainly true for the East Penn manufactured Value and Plus batteries at WalMart. It does appear that East Penn manufactures 2 different grades (Premium, Extreme) for O'Reilly's SuperStart line. However, O'Reilly's Economy line batteries are sourced by several manufacturers, including East Penn.

 

[FoxProTwisty]

Not sure why people obsess over CCA since it's fair to say 90% of them don't what the term even means, how it's measured or let alone the fact that their vehicle may only need a fraction of it to actually start.

Reserve time is another story.

 

[dogememe]

Not sure why people obsess over CCA since it's fair to say 90% of them don't what the term even means, how it's measured or let alone the fact that their vehicle may only need a fraction of it to actually start.

Reserve time is another story.

You're right, for most people it doesn't really matter, BUT it's just an easy way to compare batteries, so it does serve a purpose.

 

[FoxProTwisty]

I purchased the 24F Plus battery for my wife's Honda and a week later purchased the 24F Value battery for my Frontier. Both batteries actually weighed 38 lbs. and tested at 760-765 CCAs.

You're right, for most people it doesn't really matter, BUT it's just an easy way to compare batteries, so it does serve a purpose.

Unless this test was done at 0°F, then it's not a measurement of "CCA". That's my point.

Better off taking a new battery, installing it, turn headlights on and time how long it takes to die. There's your general indication of heath and reserve time.

 

[nobb]

In cold climates CCA is a far more important metric because people are generally using their

Not sure why people obsess over CCA since it's fair to say 90% of them don't what the term even means, how it's measured or let alone the fact that their vehicle may only need a fraction of it to actually start.

Up here in Canada where it's cold, CCA is more important than RC. These are starting batteries and people shouldn't be deep discharging them anyways. As the battery degrades, CCA diminishes, so a higher CCA battery means it's got more of a safety.

The disadvantage of higher CCA batteries is that usually it means the plates are thinner or the surface area is greater, meaning weaker plates. So in a sense, I would almost say from a robustness standpoint a lower CCA but higher RC battery may be better for longevity.

 

[f355spider]

In cold climates CCA is a far more important metric because people are generally using their

Up here in Canada where it's cold, CCA is more important than RC. These are starting batteries and people shouldn't be deep discharging them anyways. As the battery degrades, CCA diminishes, so a higher CCA battery means it's got more of a safety.

The disadvantage of higher CCA batteries is that usually it means the plates are thinner or the surface area is greater, meaning weaker plates. So in a sense, I would almost say from a robustness standpoint a lower CCA but higher RC battery may be better for longevity.

I have also read that with higher CCA and more plates packed into the battery casing, it is easier for the plates to short out from sulfate deposits...so all the more important to have a battery tender with desulfation capability.

 

[silversport]

I have also read that with higher CCA and more plates packed into the battery casing, it is easier for the plates to short out from sulfate deposits...so all the more important to have a battery tender with desulfation capability.

this...and many times you are paying for the warranty...good luck with your choice

Bill

 

[y_p_w]

Not sure why people obsess over CCA since it's fair to say 90% of them don't what the term even means, how it's measured or let alone the fact that their vehicle may only need a fraction of it to actually start.

Reserve time is another story.

Some people in temperate climates might even want something lower rated with thicker plates. So if they just have something with more (thinner) plates that's just downrated, it might not be the same thing. I'm sure that factory installed batteries are different. They almost have far lower (almost minimum) CCA values. And obviously cars on a lot often have drained batteries or are infrequently charged so actually thicker plates would be useful.

I do remember years ago I bought a DieHard WeatherHandler Group 51 battery from Sears for about $55. And it was weird. They had the "North" and "South" versions available for online sale and pickup. The "North" version was cheaper so that's what I bought, and it listed approximate inventory at my local store. When I went in to pick it up, the employee said they only had one version and I got that.

As for the original idea - sure it's pretty easy to do all sorts of modular manufacturing. Make a batch of a certain type, and I understand they don't even need to be filled with acid and capped until later.

 

[y_p_w]

I have also read that with higher CCA and more plates packed into the battery casing, it is easier for the plates to short out from sulfate deposits...so all the more important to have a battery tender with desulfation capability.

Also thinner plates, but more of them. It's not that hard to understand. Just more surface area and it will be able to create more current.

Since I don't need to deal with really cold weather, I'd rather have thicker plates spaced further apart. Should last longer. I bought a Deka Group 51 once and it had a lower CCA than most other aftermarket batteries. I've had experience with Group 51 and Group 51R, where the factory battery was typically rated at 400 CCA, typical aftermarket was 500 CCA, but the Deka was rated at 450.

The thing I'd really like are batteries with real caps that can be filled with water. Typically a white case to make it easier to see the acid level. I've only seen those within the past 3 decades in cars assembled in Japan, like Yuasa, Calsonic, or Panasonic. Even a Toyota or Honda assembled in the US or Canada would come with a Delco or JCI battery. This one indicates that it might be sold at North American Toyota dealers.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Here is my based on no actual data thought. They build batteries. Then they test them. There an analog device, there not all the same.

The ones that aren't that great become the cheap 1 year ones.

The best ones that test well become the 3 / 4 year ones.

Some places have a middle ground version too.

I bought a 1 year battery from Wally's in the pandemic for $50. From day one my tester said it was 80% health. Lasted about 18 months or so - maybe a little more. Never gave me any issues. Replaced it when the tester said to. Didn't hold a charge all that great either.

Replaced it with the same size 3 year from Wally's. It tested 100% health and amps were well over spec. 18 months later it still tests well.

That is my guess.

 

[D1dad]

Also thinner plates, but more of them. It's not that hard to understand. Just more surface area and it will be able to create more current.

Since I don't need to deal with really cold weather, I'd rather have thicker plates spaced further apart. Should last longer. I bought a Deka Group 51 once and it had a lower CCA than most other aftermarket batteries. I've had experience with Group 51 and Group 51R, where the factory battery was typically rated at 400 CCA, typical aftermarket was 500 CCA, but the Deka was rated at 450.

The thing I'd really like are batteries with real caps that can be filled with water. Typically a white case to make it easier to see the acid level. I've only seen those within the past 3 decades in cars assembled in Japan, like Yuasa, Calsonic, or Panasonic. Even a Toyota or Honda assembled in the US or Canada would come with a Delco or JCI battery. This one indicates that it might be sold at North American Toyota dealers.

I’d love to get my hands on a Panasonic. My 09 came with one and it lasted 7;yrs without a single care given or a charge to be applied. If I knew the, what I know now about charging, I’d probably still be using it.

 

[D1dad]

Here’s what I know about battery grades, nothing technical, just my own experience. I bought a couple of group 65 (value line) from Walmart for my 2000 f250. The truck needed batteries and I never really used it and wasn’t sure I was even going to keep it. The truck wasn’t 4 wheel drive, so it sat on the back of my property with 5 lbs of moth balls under and around it every winter. No charger applied. Every spring that turd started up, even with a half bad starter and the batteries lasted 4 yrs. Not to shabby for $110 worth of cheap batteries. Would maxx batteries have lasted any longer? Who knows. I just recently replaced batteries in my 21 Altima and 18 rogue. I cut went with Deka gold, 2 yr free replacement, they came from a farm store and they don’t test if a battery goes bad. Set it on the counter within 2 yrs and grab another. I’m 3 months into these and they’re still testing @ 100% health. Unlike before, I’m hooking up my Pulsetech or battery minder daily, or at least a few times a week. I’ve learned a lot from f355 about the importance of charging. I’ve always been very hands on but battery health was something I took for granted. If it started, it was good. Now I’m on a mission and border line obsessed.