Is the Napa Gold...

[Triple_Se7en]

Repeat
The three filter brands/models I mentioned are designed / aligned with racing / high performance.

I really don't care what you think about advertisements of such. I only care about what filters I see at race car / classic car events like the Woodward Dream Cruise and the Gratiot Cruise here in SE Michigan, where thousands of vehicles attend each year - for each event.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Repeat
The three filter brands/models I mentioned are designed / aligned with racing / high performance.

I really don't care what you think about advertisements of such.


Putting a filter on a hi-pro car doesn't make it a "racing filter". Some guys also use a basic Fram EG on hi-pro cars and "race cars", but doesn't mean it's actually "designed/aligned" for racing and high performance. Only the manufacturer can make that claim.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Repeat
The three filter brands/models I mentioned are designed / aligned with racing / high performance.

I really don't care what you think about advertisements of such. I only care about what filters I see at race car / classic car events like the Woodward Dream Cruise and the Gratiot Cruise here in SE Michigan, where thousands of vehicles attend each year - for each event.


I see the first show you mentioned is coming up. It's about a 3 hr drive for me, but it does sound fun. About how many cars attend?

I've missed 2 of my 3 favorite car shows this summer.. I'm really batting 100.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Repeat
The three filter brands/models I mentioned are designed / aligned with racing / high performance.

I really don't care what you think about advertisements of such.


Putting a filter on a hi-pro car doesn't make it a "racing filter". Some guys also use a basic Fram EG on hi-pro cars and "race cars", but doesn't mean it's actually "designed/aligned" for racing and high performance. Only the manufacturer can make that claim.


Yes, some do use filters other than the ones mentioned.
Who ever said they couldn't?
The filters I mentioned are designed for high performance and racing in-mind. They offer improved oil flow over their sister products.

If you believe the Fram Ultra flows like the three I mentioned, well my vehicles say otherwise and I've commented on that in recent various threads here. My GM no longer exhibits decreased idle, stutters, lowered oil pressure readings and cold startup rattle, the very minute I uninstalled the Ultra.

If you feel you can have both top-dog filtering and top-dog oil flow, then please show it to the racing industry. But don't hand them a Ultra, not if you want to invited back to their private, hood open car shows, commonly seen here that house 50-75 vehicles for a few hours in main business parking lots.

Math numbers, charts, stats and computations are nice on paper to show here. But math answers don;t work on your and my rides. Many times a dirty, greasy hand and a little common sense will outperform that computer print-out you have.

I'm done with this discussion..... take care.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

A perfect example is that batting champion of major league baseball mired in a two month slump that could last his remaining career. Saber-Math says it should be fixed.... but it's not. It's all interior-mechanical now.... meaning mental and that's not computer chart driven.

So vehicles can have slumps also, that your math charts cannot correct or improve on. What your math says - can actually even harm that vehicle further.

Again - take care.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en

The filters I mentioned are designed for high performance and racing in-mind.



Show me anywhere in the Wix XP or Napa Platinum literature where the word racing or high performance is mentioned. I'm waiting....

And don't tell me it's because you see these filters on cars you see on cruise nights. That doesn't prove that a filter was designed for high performance in the first place. It just proves that it's a popular filter on cruise night (and BTW, most of those guys don't even race, they just show up at car shows in sit in lawn chairs)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
The filters I mentioned are designed for high performance and racing in-mind. They offer improved oil flow over their sister products.


They are designed for every day passenger cars. Can they be put on hi-pro or "race" cars? ... sure, any filter that fits can. But that doesn't mean they are "hi-pro/race filters".

Nobody knows if they have improved flow over other filters without actual test data - which WIX would never give anybody if asked. Just because they are mounted on some guy's hi-pro show car doesn't mean they are hi-pro/race filters.

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en

If you feel you can have both top-dog filtering and top-dog oil flow, then please show it to the racing industry.


There are plenty of actual "racing filters" on the market that both filter and flow very well (low delta-p with high oil flow).

Just because a filter has low efficiency doesn't mean it automatically flows well and is therefore a "racing filter". If that was the case, all those unknown brand name $2.97 cellulous filters from China used at the Quick Lube would be considered to be "racing filters".

 

[bullwinkle]

Only thing a K&N is good at is emptying your wallet-I would be afraid it would rust out due to the useless nut stuck on the end of it! If the Wix XP/NAPA Platinum is a "racing" filter, what is the purpose of the Wix Racing filter? I agree that a low efficiency filter isn't a bad idea in winter, but I can think of a few I would rather use (eBay Ultras, OEM Toyota/Honda, Baldwin).

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Repeat
The three filter brands/models I mentioned are designed / aligned with racing / high performance.

I really don't care what you think about advertisements of such.


Putting a filter on a hi-pro car doesn't make it a "racing filter". Some guys also use a basic Fram EG on hi-pro cars and "race cars", but doesn't mean it's actually "designed/aligned" for racing and high performance. Only the manufacturer can make that claim.


Yes, some do use filters other than the ones mentioned.
Who ever said they couldn't?
The filters I mentioned are designed for high performance and racing in-mind. They offer improved oil flow over their sister products.

If you believe the Fram Ultra flows like the three I mentioned, well my vehicles say otherwise and I've commented on that in recent various threads here. My GM no longer exhibits decreased idle, stutters, lowered oil pressure readings and cold startup rattle, the very minute I uninstalled the Ultra.

If you feel you can have both top-dog filtering and top-dog oil flow, then please show it to the racing industry. But don't hand them a Ultra, not if you want to invited back to their private, hood open car shows, commonly seen here that house 50-75 vehicles for a few hours in main business parking lots.

Math numbers, charts, stats and computations are nice on paper to show here. But math answers don;t work on your and my rides. Many times a dirty, greasy hand and a little common sense will outperform that computer print-out you have.

I'm done with this discussion..... take care.


Two questions. One, why don't the Fram Racing filters use Ultra media if it's so top dog? Secondly, where is that 22 psi Fram Ultra cross for the PF64?

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes



Secondly, where is that 22 psi Fram Ultra cross for the PF64?


I sent Motorking a PM this week asking when it's coming out, as he told me back in early May that it would be out within 30 days, but I still see no sign of it anywhere (or on the Fram website).

 

[69Torino]

Against my better judgement I will add to the “high performance oil filter” discussion.

I grew up on the drag strip. I also hung around a few dirt and asphalt ovals. When I was in the pits, a RESOUNDING number of race cars were wearing either Napa Gold, Wix, or Baldwin/Hastings filters. Usually the Ford guys ran the Napa Gold/Wix and the Chevy guys liked Baldwin. Usually. Most Mopars I saw wore a Fram HP or Napa Gold/Wix. This still holds true today, if you’re in the pits on practice/grudge night, look around. The vast majority of cars will have Napa Golds on them. I believe this to be because they simply do not fail. A true Racing oil filter may not say the word “racing” on it. Some people buy filters based on a certain spec of their own. Bypass psi, bypass location, adbv material, media, can thickness, or combination of all of these. I buy filters based on the task at hand, what I plan to do with the car, etc. I am also open to change if I see a trend or pattern develop that I like or don’t like.

And someone also asked why the Fram HP doesn’t have the Ultra media inside. This is simple. Lots of race engines have high volume oil pumps installed. The Ultra media is designed to be efficient on street cars with normal (stock) flow rates. There is always a trade-off with anything in life. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Some guys refer to Racing filters as “rock catchers”, and the truth is not far behind that term. Better to have plenty of oil volume, during a WFO dragstrip pass than to worry about trapping human viruses in the oil filter. I dumped the oil after every (EVERY) race night or practice night anyway. Race cars get their oil dumped way more often than street cars. For obvious reasons.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
A perfect example is that batting champion of major league baseball mired in a two month slump that could last his remaining career. Saber-Math says it should be fixed.... but it's not. It's all interior-mechanical now.... meaning mental and that's not computer chart driven.

So vehicles can have slumps also, that your math charts cannot correct or improve on. What your math says - can actually even harm that vehicle further.

Again - take care.


To me … one thing a racer wants is a stout can. I have used and cut plenty XP’s and FU’s … the Fram was my go to … but it’s pretty thin every where … I don’t know ksi of either material … but the XP is a tank like the RP/M1 are …

Starting to migrate towards others for 5k-7k runs …

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 69Torino
And someone also asked why the Fram HP doesn’t have the Ultra media inside. This is simple. Lots of race engines have high volume oil pumps installed. The Ultra media is designed to be efficient on street cars with normal (stock) flow rates. There is always a trade-off with anything in life. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Some guys refer to Racing filters as “rock catchers”, and the truth is not far behind that term.


Per numbers obtained from Motorking posted in this forum, the Ultra flows very well - somthing like only 4~5 psi with 12 GPM of hot 30 weigh oil flow. A real "rock catcher" (ie, a screen mesh reusable race filter) might have half that, but as said before that's only a 2~2.5 psi difference at max flow, which isn't enough to really matter to the engine. My bet is the Ultra flows just as well or better than a regular WIX/NAPA Gold since it's full synthetic.

The Fram HP series racing filter is far from a "rock catcher", it's slightly less efficient than the Ultra, and much more efficient than the XP/Platinum. The HP has many more differences for racing duty than just the media.

The Ford Racing Performance filter is almost as efficiency as the Ultra (98~99% at 20u), and flows very well. The Ford racing filter data sheet has been posted many times over the last couple of years, and even shows the "flow vs delta-p" curve.

"Racing filters" might have been "rock catchers" (ie, 50% at 20u or worse) back in the old days, but some are not these days.

 

[4WD]

94/20 is not bad for high flow
Look mom ! metal end caps inside a thick orange can …

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 69Torino
And someone also asked why the Fram HP doesn’t have the Ultra media inside. This is simple. Lots of race engines have high volume oil pumps installed. The Ultra media is designed to be efficient on street cars with normal (stock) flow rates. There is always a trade-off with anything in life. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Some guys refer to Racing filters as “rock catchers”, and the truth is not far behind that term.


Per numbers obtained from Motorking posted in this forum, the Ultra flows very well - somthing like only 4~5 psi with 12 GPM of hot 30 weigh oil flow. A real "rock catcher" (ie, a screen mesh reusable race filter) might have half that, but as said before that's only a 2~2.5 psi difference at max flow, which isn't enough to really matter to the engine. My bet is the Ultra flows just as well or better than a regular WIX/NAPA Gold since it's full synthetic.

The Fram HP series racing filter is far from a "rock catcher", it's slightly less efficient than the Ultra, and much more efficient than the XP/Platinum. The HP has many more differences for racing duty than just the media.

The Ford Racing Performance filter is almost as efficiency as the Ultra (98~99% at 20u), and flows very well. The Ford racing filter data sheet has been posted many times over the last couple of years, and even shows the "flow vs delta-p" curve.

"Racing filters" might have been "rock catchers" (ie, 50% at 20u or worse) back in the old days, but some are not these days.



Thank you kindly for your additions to the discussion. I use the Ford Racing version of the FL-820S on my Marauder most of the time, because of these facts. Truly a hidden gem of a filter, and it also has the thread end bypass that the Ford mothership likes. (I like it too. Far superior design/placement).

I did not realize the Fram HP line had decent efficiency. I guess it’s the Wix part numbers that end in “R” that are still the kitchen strainers. But then again, some people care much more to flow oil in quantity, such as in alcohol fueled engines that murder oil filters. These engines get torn down regularly though.

Again, thanks for the insight.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Thank you kindly for your additions to the discussion. I use the Ford Racing version of the FL-820S on my Marauder most of the time, because of these facts. Truly a hidden gem of a filter, and it also has the thread end bypass that the Ford mothership likes. (I like it too. Far superior design/placement).


Any time 69Torino ... here's the Ford FL820 racing filter spec sheet in case you never saw it posted before. Nice filter, but not cheap.

 

[69Torino]

Yep really great specs. 625 psi burst! I can get them for $12 each.

 

[4WD]

See date on spec sheet?

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
See date on spec sheet?


Yes, but I doubt much has changed with these. Ford used to offer the racing filter as “Motorcraft FL-1HP”. And Motorcraft filters haven’t changed much since 2005 either. Actually I think they still offer Motorcraft HP’s.

 

[goodtimes]

If the Ultra media flows so well, better than any, why can't it be used in the racing filter? I read the answers already given. I don't see a good answer. My guess is it's too weak. They do have to screen the media, so that makes it clear the media by itself is weak. Then there is the long delay in producing the 22 psi substitute filter. A number of people have felt the Ultra restricts through their experience. If a filter does restrict it may cause start up rattle. I bought filters from RA and they were old. The rattle on Camry v6 was terrible, even after it just sat an hour. If the media is hardened or too fine the bypass valve must carry the flow, and for some reason there is a delay. I had to remove the RA filter, first time ever doing that on a car. The Ultra worked fine on that car, but I changed at 5k always.