Is the End in Sight for ICE ?

[HTSS_TR]

For posters questioning "ICE". ICE had been used in this forum in several thread already, so I thought that ICE is known to most of you. Also, if have this as title will it fits the available space ? "Is the End in Sight for ICE(Internal Combustion Engine) ?"

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: Shannow

I know that the OP "doesn't care" what happens in other countries.

Why should I care about dirty air outside US ?

Because you thought that an improperly placed statistic about third world death rates cooking inside over open dung fires was pertinent to the thread you started...enough to bold it... When you clearly didn't get that the people writing the article were relying on your lack of understanding to get all emotional about it...which you did !!!

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: Shannow

I know that the OP "doesn't care" what happens in other countries.

Why should I care about dirty air outside US ?

Because you thought that an improperly placed statistic about third world death rates cooking inside over open dung fires was pertinent to the thread you started...enough to bold it... When you clearly didn't get that the people writing the article were relying on your lack of understanding to get all emotional about it...which you did !!!

And shannow hits ANOTHER grand slam!!

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Did you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ? Four CA cities were the worse in the list and Los Angeles was the dirtiest city in US in 2016.

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Because you thought that an improperly placed statistic about third world death rates cooking inside over open dung fires was pertinent to the thread you started...enough to bold it... When you clearly didn't get that the people writing the article were relying on your lack of understanding to get all emotional about it...which you did !!!

Didn't you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ? I also said that if you love diesel fume then have one park on front of your house and pipe the fume into your house.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Didn't you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ?

But the millions of deaths that you emphasised (the bold part) in your original post are of people that you don't care about, in countries that you don't care about, and have absolutely nothing to do with the state of the environment in ANY of those ten cities... It was put in the article that you linked to create an association in the feeble minded that doesn't exist in reality...and clearly it works.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

I also said that if you love diesel fume then have one park on front of your house and pipe the fume into your house.

I HAVE one park (in, not on) front of my house...I don't care to pipe it in, but what has that got to do with your thread, and the nonsensical links contained in the original post ? Why don't you have a coal power station parked in (not on) front of YOUR house and pipe it in if you love EV's so much ??? NIMBY...someone else's back yard.

 

[OilyWaterMIXER]

Originally Posted By: njohnson

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver

I was thinking this was about Turtle Wax ICE. Guess I was the only one.

I thought the same thing. So, that makes at least two of us!

Turtle Wax: 2 Immigration and Customs Enforcement: 1 Cubed and frozen water: 2 8-6-7-5-3-O-9

 

[supton]

Back when I was doing my research before buying a diesel I did some reading up on the emissions issue. I recall reading that people who work around diesel engines--dock workers, rail yards, etc--did not suffer vastly higher rates of lung issues. The diesel exhaust was not that detrimental (and if it was I'm sure OSHA would have a fit). No I don't have a link for it, just going off memory. I don't want to breathe diesel exhaust any more than I want to breathe gasoline exhaust, CNG exhaust or wood smoke. But I don't think it takes the cake as to being dirty. There was some evidence that the larger particulates of diesel exhaust both falls out of the air faster, and is easy filtered by the lungs, than the smaller particulates that gasoline fired engines produce--those hang in the air longer and more easily pass through the lung lining. [Again, no link, going off memory.]

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: supton

Back when I was doing my research before buying a diesel I did some reading up on the emissions issue. I recall reading that people who work around diesel engines--dock workers, rail yards, etc--did not suffer vastly higher rates of lung issues. The diesel exhaust was not that detrimental (and if it was I'm sure OSHA would have a fit). No I don't have a link for it, just going off memory. I don't want to breathe diesel exhaust any more than I want to breathe gasoline exhaust, CNG exhaust or wood smoke. But I don't think it takes the cake as to being dirty. There was some evidence that the larger particulates of diesel exhaust both falls out of the air faster, and is easy filtered by the lungs, than the smaller particulates that gasoline fired engines produce--those hang in the air longer and more easily pass through the lung lining. [Again, no link, going off memory.]

Now that I think about it, the tractor is less irritating to start and warm up in the shed than the atv, and the tractor engine is 7 times bigger. The atv just has a carb, and the tractor is just mechanical injection with no electronics or filters or urea injection, so neither is especially clean running when cold. Back on topic, I think eventually we'll get to urban cars with just an electrical motor, and rural cars that run mostly on a battery, but have an ICE generator to extend range. For industrial/agricultural machinery I think ICE will be in use for a long time which is fine, some jobs need 200hp all day and batteries for that aren't really practical.

 

[KrisZ]

EPA was so desperate to find a fault with diesel engines that they pumped raw diesel exhaust gasses, from a truck running outside the building, into lungs of adults and young children without giving a full disclosure. That's what happens when you get these whackos a free reign. EPA experiments on humans

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Didn't you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ?

But the millions of deaths that you emphasised (the bold part) in your original post are of people that you don't care about, in countries that you don't care about, and have absolutely nothing to do with the state of the environment in ANY of those ten cities... It was put in the article that you linked to create an association in the feeble minded that doesn't exist in reality...and clearly it works.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

I also said that if you love diesel fume then have one park on front of your house and pipe the fume into your house.

I HAVE one park (in, not on) front of my house...I don't care to pipe it in, but what has that got to do with your thread, and the nonsensical links contained in the original post ? Why don't you have a coal power station parked in (not on) front of YOUR house and pipe it in if you love EV's so much ??? NIMBY...someone else's back yard.

I don't promoting coal or any other type of polluting power plant. You are promoting diesel engines, you said that it is efficient and a clean source of energy. Then have diesel fume into your house to enjoy the clean source of energy that you love.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Didn't you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ?

But the millions of deaths that you emphasised (the bold part) in your original post are of people that you don't care about, in countries that you don't care about, and have absolutely nothing to do with the state of the environment in ANY of those ten cities... It was put in the article that you linked to create an association in the feeble minded that doesn't exist in reality...and clearly it works.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

I also said that if you love diesel fume then have one park on front of your house and pipe the fume into your house.

I HAVE one park (in, not on) front of my house...I don't care to pipe it in, but what has that got to do with your thread, and the nonsensical links contained in the original post ? Why don't you have a coal power station parked in (not on) front of YOUR house and pipe it in if you love EV's so much ??? NIMBY...someone else's back yard.

I don't promoting coal or any other type of polluting power plant. You are promoting diesel engines, you said that it is efficient and a clean source of energy. Then have diesel fume into your house to enjoy the clean source of energy that you love.

What power plant does not cause pollution? Clean coal is very clean. Better we burn it here, than say in China, and they don't have scrubbers.

 

[Shannow]

Vern, the new chinese coal plants are very efficient, and very clean, compared to most US plants...plus they are retiring the old stuff...just saying.

 

[fdcg27]

The OP is probably unaware that there are documented cases of large, heavily leveraged hydrofracturing operators forming phony environmental groups to block construction of new coal burning power stations and some of these companies have also heavily funded existing nationally recognized environmental groups to carry the can for them. Gotta have a sufficiently lucrative market for all these new natural gas supplies so that we can service our debts and have enough left for generous executive salaries and bonuses. So far, their investment has paid off handsomely in creating a market for their recently abundant natural gas that will last for decades while blocking the construction of clean and environmentally sound coal fired plants for which there are known reserves of fuel for centuries of use.

 

[Shannow]

Yep, $2 companies using taxpayer funding to appeal decisions and processes are becoming the norm down here.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Yep, $2 companies using taxpayer funding to appeal decisions and processes are becoming the norm down here.

These weren't two buck companies here. They were few tens of billions dollar companies listed on the NYSE. They weren't using the taxpayers' money. They were using their own. Their goal was to prevent large utilities from investing in new coal-fired electrical generating capacity so as to preserve the market for their newly discovered natural gas. They have so far succeeded.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: Shannow

I know that the OP "doesn't care" what happens in other countries.

Why should I care about dirty air outside US ? Did you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ? Four CA cities were the worse in the list and Los Angeles was the dirtiest city in US in 2016. This is what I care the most since I live less than 50 miles form LA. The air in my city isn't as dirty but it isn't as clean as it should be. I am selfish, I care for my family and myself first before worrying about people oversea. The city of LA did replaced dirty diesel buses with CNG buses few years ago. Any large city in US with diesel buses should think/plan about replacing it with electric buses. If you like diesel bus and believe it is a clean bus why don't you let a bus parks on front of your house with its engine running, and pipe the exhaust into your house to breath the clean air from the bus engine?

Although we disagree on as many things as we disagree on, I do have respect for your making surprisingly cogent arguments. This was not one of those times. You do realize that our atmosphere is constantly circulating throughout the world? I do understand your typical electric/greenie attitude in which you don't care about what pollution goes on outside of the United States. It allows you green/electric guys to ignore the fact that the third world environment will be destroyed at a shocking rate to make all of those "clean" electric car technologies: No big deal though. We no longer have a need to rape Canada for nickel. We can keep raping South America and leveling the rain forests to get the massive quantities of lithium for all those batteries. And we can keep raping Asia for the other rare metals (that are more finite than coal or oil) needed to make the electric motors. The thing you keep forgetting is that electric cars have never been tested as a proof-of-concept at mass levels. Back when the ICE first hit the scene emitting a little blue smoke; instead of defecating and dying in the street like its predecessor, was thought to be very environmentally friendly. The electric vehicle will never be environmentally friendly. It only looks that way now, because numbers are small. Same reason why even a state like California does not bother to keep up with emission testing on old cars, hot rods, or the vehicles that receive those "special registrations" from your state annually. Small numbers, small impact. If there are hundreds of millions of these electric cars being built, the Earth is completely humped.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Originally Posted By: supton

Back when I was doing my research before buying a diesel I did some reading up on the emissions issue. I recall reading that people who work around diesel engines--dock workers, rail yards, etc--did not suffer vastly higher rates of lung issues. The diesel exhaust was not that detrimental (and if it was I'm sure OSHA would have a fit). No I don't have a link for it, just going off memory. I don't want to breathe diesel exhaust any more than I want to breathe gasoline exhaust, CNG exhaust or wood smoke. But I don't think it takes the cake as to being dirty. There was some evidence that the larger particulates of diesel exhaust both falls out of the air faster, and is easy filtered by the lungs, than the smaller particulates that gasoline fired engines produce--those hang in the air longer and more easily pass through the lung lining. [Again, no link, going off memory.]

Now that I think about it, the tractor is less irritating to start and warm up in the shed than the atv, and the tractor engine is 7 times bigger. The atv just has a carb, and the tractor is just mechanical injection with no electronics or filters or urea injection, so neither is especially clean running when cold. Back on topic, I think eventually we'll get to urban cars with just an electrical motor, and rural cars that run mostly on a battery, but have an ICE generator to extend range. For industrial/agricultural machinery I think ICE will be in use for a long time which is fine, some jobs need 200hp all day and batteries for that aren't really practical.

Diesel can be completely eliminated from industry. I'm confident they will have generators that will run on electricity instead of diesel very soon.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Didn't you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ?

But the millions of deaths that you emphasised (the bold part) in your original post are of people that you don't care about, in countries that you don't care about, and have absolutely nothing to do with the state of the environment in ANY of those ten cities... It was put in the article that you linked to create an association in the feeble minded that doesn't exist in reality...and clearly it works.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

I also said that if you love diesel fume then have one park on front of your house and pipe the fume into your house.

I HAVE one park (in, not on) front of my house...I don't care to pipe it in, but what has that got to do with your thread, and the nonsensical links contained in the original post ? Why don't you have a coal power station parked in (not on) front of YOUR house and pipe it in if you love EV's so much ??? NIMBY...someone else's back yard.

I don't promoting coal or any other type of polluting power plant. You are promoting diesel engines, you said that it is efficient and a clean source of energy. Then have diesel fume into your house to enjoy the clean source of energy that you love.

I'm guessing you don't have subways where you come from. You can't survive in a closed environment piped with the emissions from a large electric motor, any more than you can with diesel emissions piped in. This is why subways have very large ventilation systems. But since you think electric is such a clean and efficient method of power, perhaps you should drink some water from the water table around the mines for those batteries and motors. Nothing lives there anymore, but I'm sure you'll do just fine.

 

[PeterPolyol]

I'm convinced that politics will decide when the end of ICEs are, nothing else.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

I'm confident they will have generators that will run on electricity instead of diesel very soon.

I'm sorry, but what? If a "generator" is not producing electricity, that what is it producing? As far as I am aware, all generators produce electricity from some other form of input. There are hydro generators that use moving water to spin the input shaft of the generator, which then produces the electricity. Diesel, Gas, Natural Gas, Propane, and kerosene generators all burn fuel in an ICE to spin the input shaft of the generator, which then produces the electricity. Coal and Geothermal generators are variants on the steam generator, which nuclear also falls under. Heat up the water, which turns to steam, which is then used to spin the generator, producing electricity. In other words, you can't use electricity to generate electricity. So no, I don't believe you will be seeing an all electric electricity generator anytime soon. BC.