Is the End in Sight for ICE ?

[HTSS_TR]

EcoWatch is a greenny site so they may have some bias against ICE. But this article seems to have some valid points. Some predicted that ZEV(Zero Emission Vehicle such as BEV(Battery Electric Vehicle) and FCV(Fuel Cell Vehicle)) will get up to 50% market share of new vehicles by 2050, 35 years from now. http://www.ecowatch.com/end-in-sight-internal-combustion-engine-1915776509.html

Quote:

Auto and truck makers have made remarkable progress in cleaning up soot, hydrocarbons, sulfur and carbon monoxide from internal combustion engines (IC), while making those engines more efficient so that carbon pollution per passenger or ton mile could be lowered. Nitrogen oxide (NOx) pollutants from gas powered engines can also be cleaned up. Auto-makers like diesels because they squeeze more energy out of fuel—but they also make it much harder to control NOx emissions. VW didn't cheat to save a few dollars—it cheated because it couldn't make its small diesel cars meet U.S. standards. (Large diesels deal with NOx with a cumbersome, bulky urea injection system, which cannot be accommodated in smaller models).

Quote:

This engineering limit on diesels is running into a global revolution of attitudes about air pollution. Deaths from air pollution are becoming a larger and larger catastrophe and a bigger and bigger political issue. New studies from the International Energy Agency calculated that 6.5 million people each year die from air pollution; similar studies emerge regularly from the World Health Organization. Countries like India and China are passing more stringent pollution rules and eliminating fuel subsidies. US auto companies are complaining—falsely—that they cannot meet the current round of fuel economy standards; they are rightly concerned that the next round of post 2021 standards, is likely to exceed the capacity of internal combustion engines to meet. This will force a rapid increase in market share for electric cars.

Quote:

Oil powered transportation is becoming the most important climate threat. For both the U.S. and Europe, 2015 was the year in which climate pollution from transportation exceeded emissions from electricity. Oil, not coal, is now the biggest danger. Governments all over the world — California, the Netherlands, Britain, Germany among them — are considering outright bans on the sale of internal combustion engines. (A month ago Norway almost implemented its proposed 2025 ban). More immediately, Germany, South Korea, Sweden and China are aggressively increasing incentives for EV's. India's car manufacturers have joined with the government to phase out IC passenger vehicles by 2030.

 

[Nick1994]

I don't think so, the ice dispenser is working great in my fridge?

 

[OilyWaterMIXER]

I never get ICE in my soft drinks. The melting water eventually ruins the beverage, and the temperature from the dispenser or container is usually not warm.

 

[John_K]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

I don't think so, the ice dispenser is working great in my fridge?

That's funny, I was thinking Immigration and Customs Enforcement!

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: John_K

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

I don't think so, the ice dispenser is working great in my fridge?

That's funny, I was thinking Immigration and Customs Enforcement!

IMMIGRACION!!

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

I don't think so, the ice dispenser is working great in my fridge?

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[KGMtech]

Cool post I very much doubt that Internal Combustion Engines will cease to exist in the near future, maybe beyond 50 years the situation will be different, but that's just my view. Let us work on the current inventory of polluting 3rd world trucks, bus, put-puts, stationary generators. Then we can focus on the ocean going freighters that spew HUGE amounts of toxins once they are far enough from shore to avoid visibility. These ships switch to the better diesel fuel when close to shore, but burn the bunker fuel junk for 98% of their journey. Should be fun times for all that love technology!

 

[supton]

Remind what the efficiency is for powerplants, what the losses are for transmission lines, the losses of converting into chemical energy and then back into mechanical. And then the relative efficiency of ICE. Then guesstimate what that ICE efficiency rises to once it is hybridized. Call me foolish but I don't see ICE going away any time soon. * So, VW cheats, and that means GM cheated too on their diesel Colorado? Or Fiat with RAM? Or GM with Cruze?

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

[quote]New studies from the International Energy Agency calculated that 6.5 million people each year die from air pollution; similar studies emerge regularly from the World Health Organization.

RIIIIIIIIGHT... And how many people does global warming kill each year? How many people does deforestation kill? MILLIONS! where can I buy the koolaid?

 

[OilyWaterMIXER]

Originally Posted By: Brybo86

[quote=HTSS_TR]

Quote:

New studies from the International Energy Agency calculated that 6.5 million people each year die from air pollution; similar studies emerge regularly from the World Health Organization.

RIIIIIIIIGHT... And how many people does global warming kill each year? How many people does deforestation kill? MILLIONS! where can I buy the koolaid?

And HAARP. It's turned up to 11 today.

 

[Al]

End is in sight for everything including the U.S.

 

[Nate1979]

Very poorly thought out article and shows the lack of critical thinking that prevails the greenie movement. They seem to latch on to non related events (VW cheating scandal) to try and prove their point while not being able to barely scrape the surface of examining the issue they are discussing. Regardless, 2050 is a long long time from now and no one has a crystal ball.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Brybo86

[quote=HTSS_TR]

Quote:

New studies from the International Energy Agency calculated that 6.5 million people each year die from air pollution; similar studies emerge regularly from the World Health Organization.

RIIIIIIIIGHT... And how many people does global warming kill each year? How many people does deforestation kill? MILLIONS! where can I buy the koolaid?

Well the article said so so there !!!

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979

Very poorly thought out article and shows the lack of critical thinking that prevails the greenie movement. They seem to latch on to non related events (VW cheating scandal) to try and prove their point while not being able to barely scrape the surface of examining the issue they are discussing. Regardless, 2050 is a long long time from now and no one has a crystal ball.

Agree, like most such sources, it's full of junk tidbits that convince the uneducated.

Quote:

(Large diesels deal with NOx with a cumbersome, bulky urea injection system, which cannot be accommodated in smaller models).

Tripe...urea injection is installed in many, many models of small family car in Australia...I know that the OP "doesn't care" what happens in other countries, but this technology is here, has been here for years, and nobody who owns a diesel is having any issues with it (other than $40/L at the dealer, but once you buy the bottle you can refill that for $1).

Quote:

6.5 million people each year die from air pollution

OP bolded it, so it must be important...again, it's a fact, included in these types of articles to shock and awe (apparently with success in this case). Here's the actual reason... http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/

Quote:

Key facts Around 3 billion people cook and heat their homes using open fires and simple stoves burning biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal. Over 4 million people die prematurely from illness attributable to the household air pollution from cooking with solid fuels. More than 50% of premature deaths due to pneumonia among children under 5 are caused by the particulate matter (soot) inhaled from household air pollution. 3.8 million premature deaths annually from noncommunicable diseases including stroke, ischaemic heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and lung cancer are attributed to exposure to household air pollution.

So no, an electric bus in L.A. isn't going to save a single one of those lives. It has NOTHING to do with the topic of ICE in transport, but the greenies wheel it out to appeal to the ill informed. I first became aware of it when they started targetting coal power and mining in my district...using exactly the same tactic...one of the local doctors (who owns and flies a private plane, he's that green) wheels it out every year.... OP, you keep posting these things, bolding things for emphasis, but it's apparent that you haven't applied a critical eye to them

 

[SatinSilver]

I was thinking this was about Turtle Wax ICE. Guess I was the only one.

 

[Cujet]

Electrochemical storage limits are surprisingly limiting. Fuels far outperform when it comes to energy density. The easiest way to visualize this is to consider an airliner. A battery powered airliner could fly for 15 minutes with today's best batteries configured to the weight of fuel they replace. And it will land grossly overweight, at takeoff weight. Even with an order of magnitude improvement in battery energy density, (impossible, by the way) 150 minutes would be the flight time under power. And it would still land at takeoff weight. Meaning no efficiency gain as fuel burns off. Yet modern aircraft regularly fly 15 to 17 hours!

 

[njohnson]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver

I was thinking this was about Turtle Wax ICE. Guess I was the only one.

I thought the same thing. So, that makes at least two of us!

 

[fdcg27]

There isn't a more efficient powerplant for any road, air or water vehicle than the ICE. For that reason alone, the end of ICE use for road, air and ocean transport is well out of sight. Fuel isn't a problem, since every time that peak petroleum has been declared, the high price levels then bring a flood of new gas and liquid fossil fuels to market, just as basic microeconomic theory would predict. This will continue for probably well into the twenty second century and very likely beyond that. Global warming and climate change as a result of releasing long sequestered carbon? The data are neither linear nor really persuasive. Is the earth actually getting warmer? By some measures it is while by others it isn't, so I think that climatic catastrophe caused by the use of fossil fuels remains an unlikely event. Are sea levels really rising? By some measures they are while by others they aren't. What the data tells us is not as clear-cut as some would pretend. What will happen when a flood of fresh water invades the world's oceans as a consequence of glacier melt? So far, nothing and while some glaciers are contracting others are expanding. Once again, the data is neither linear nor conclusive. There is nothing to indicate that the end of ICEs is either desirable or eminent.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

How many organizations use the acronym ICE? Reading the title I thought this was about the INTERCONTINENTAL EXCHANGE. The platform for THIEVES to raise crude prices to record levels!

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

I know that the OP "doesn't care" what happens in other countries.

Why should I care about dirty air outside US ? Did you see the list of 10 dirtiest city in US in 2016 I posted ? Four CA cities were the worse in the list and Los Angeles was the dirtiest city in US in 2016. This is what I care the most since I live less than 50 miles form LA. The air in my city isn't as dirty but it isn't as clean as it should be. I am selfish, I care for my family and myself first before worrying about people oversea. The city of LA did replaced dirty diesel buses with CNG buses few years ago. Any large city in US with diesel buses should think/plan about replacing it with electric buses. If you like diesel bus and believe it is a clean bus why don't you let a bus parks on front of your house with its engine running, and pipe the exhaust into your house to breath the clean air from the bus engine?