In small air cooled snowblower and laun mower motors is synthetic really needed we are talking about engines that really don't turn much RPM. Do you think it will really make any difference in engine wear?
Is synthetic really needed?
- Thread starter Camprunner
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What do you mean by "don't turn much RPM?" Snowblowers and lawnmowers run much faster than your auto engine does, usually 3000 RPM and up. Your car is probably only turning 2000 or so on the highway.
Air cooled engines run hotter, and have more "hot spots" than a water cooled engine. The synthetics do offer better protection in the heat.
Do you need a synthetic? Probably not. You should definitely run the specified grade that your manufacturer recommends.
Air cooled engines run hotter, and have more "hot spots" than a water cooled engine. The synthetics do offer better protection in the heat.
Do you need a synthetic? Probably not. You should definitely run the specified grade that your manufacturer recommends.
MolaKule
Staff member
I use synthetics in 4-cycle snowblower OE equipment because I prefer an easy pull when starting an engine in cold (-20F) weather.
In summer use lawnmowers, I doubt there would be much difference in wear since they both have pretty much the same additive packages.
In summer use lawnmowers, I doubt there would be much difference in wear since they both have pretty much the same additive packages.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
These engines use pretty small quantities of oil. Even if it is only a tiny amount better, I'd use a full synthetic to get the best possible lubrication for very little additional running cost.
That's a good point. Whatever oil you use, change it two or three times a season since the oil takes quite a beating in these engines.
These engines use pretty small quantities of oil. Even if it is only a tiny amount better, I'd use a full synthetic to get the best possible lubrication for very little additional running cost.
That's a good point. Whatever oil you use, change it two or three times a season since the oil takes quite a beating in these engines.
If you use cheaper regular oil over synthetic, and change it every 2 or 3 years, the rest of the mower or snow blower will probably rust away before the motor gives it up.,,
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If you use cheaper regular oil over synthetic, and change it every 2 or 3 years, the rest of the mower or snow blower will probably rust away before the motor gives it up.,,
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I just gave away a Honda HRX-215 walk behind mower to the AmVets a month or so ago. I used it for 14 years, using Mobil 1 10-30 at the end of each season. Finally was blowing smoke and getting hard to start the last year or so. The deck ( cast aluminum) and drive were still working with no rust. Only thing I replaced in 14 years was one hard rubber wheel, and the nylon bag last year. I'm sure it will last 2-3 more years, I'm going to get a new Honda come mowing season.
Would conventional have lasted as long? Dunno- but at 1/2 quart a year- why?
If you use cheaper regular oil over synthetic, and change it every 2 or 3 years, the rest of the mower or snow blower will probably rust away before the motor gives it up.,,
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I just gave away a Honda HRX-215 walk behind mower to the AmVets a month or so ago. I used it for 14 years, using Mobil 1 10-30 at the end of each season. Finally was blowing smoke and getting hard to start the last year or so. The deck ( cast aluminum) and drive were still working with no rust. Only thing I replaced in 14 years was one hard rubber wheel, and the nylon bag last year. I'm sure it will last 2-3 more years, I'm going to get a new Honda come mowing season.
Would conventional have lasted as long? Dunno- but at 1/2 quart a year- why?
Synthetics are most useful at extreme temps. If you need to start your snowblower in sub-freezing temps (the temp of the machine where it is stored) or run OPE engines at length in 80F+ summer heat, then synthetics are helpful in starting the machine and keeping it running well.
For everything in between, a good mineral oil with a decent add-pack is more than adequate.
AND, if your OPE engine does not have an oil filter, it might be BETTER to use a mineral oil and change it regularly than to use a high $$$ synthetic and be tempted to stretch the oil interval out a bit longer. The debris suspended in the oil will probably be accelerating wear at that point, synthetic or not.
For everything in between, a good mineral oil with a decent add-pack is more than adequate.
AND, if your OPE engine does not have an oil filter, it might be BETTER to use a mineral oil and change it regularly than to use a high $$$ synthetic and be tempted to stretch the oil interval out a bit longer. The debris suspended in the oil will probably be accelerating wear at that point, synthetic or not.
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My parents mower recommends ND30. I will probably run some of the SJ 5w-30 M1 we have sitting in the garage.
I've been using Rotella T5 which is a blend in my mower the last 2-3 years. I change it after the first cut the of the year and it looks like brand new each time. I'm sure the oil is overkill but it only takes 20oz so the gallon of T5 will last several years. It probably don't need changed once a year but at 20oz why not.
I just use the store brand full synthetic and buy it on sale. I pay like $3-4 per qt. I change it as soon as it gets a little thin and or grayish. Normally twice a usmmer for the mower or once a season for the snow blower. 5-10 hours is a lot of time for a snowblower season around here. So, it comes out to something like $2.50 per year using full synthetic. Why not?
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When using multi-viscosity oils in OPE engines, I always use synthetic as they tend to burn multi conv oils. I use conv 30W in my mower and Mobil 1 0W-30 synthetic in my snow thrower. I only change the oil in my 4-cycle OPE on e a year as I don't put that many hours on them. It's fine to use conv multi in an OPE engine if its listed in the manual, just check your oil levels more often.
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
In small air cooled snowblower and laun mower motors is synthetic really needed we are talking about engines that really don't turn much RPM. Do you think it will really make any difference in engine wear?
They are air cooled (so no proper running temp is maintained) and not pressure lubricated. So a rough life for an engine. I use Amsoil 4-Stroke in all OPE type engines.
In small air cooled snowblower and laun mower motors is synthetic really needed we are talking about engines that really don't turn much RPM. Do you think it will really make any difference in engine wear?
They are air cooled (so no proper running temp is maintained) and not pressure lubricated. So a rough life for an engine. I use Amsoil 4-Stroke in all OPE type engines.
We had a 15 year old Yardman mower that received oil changes fairly regularly. When we first got it, I would mow 10 or so lawns around the neighborhood.
Back in 2008, my mother hit a pipe and bent the crankshaft. I don't think the oil was changed from that point until 2013 when they bought a new one. Just top-up.
Even then, it still ran great but the vibration from the bent crankshaft cracked the plastic intake manifold. We did fix few times with duct tape, but the tape would melt.
Back in 2008, my mother hit a pipe and bent the crankshaft. I don't think the oil was changed from that point until 2013 when they bought a new one. Just top-up.
Even then, it still ran great but the vibration from the bent crankshaft cracked the plastic intake manifold. We did fix few times with duct tape, but the tape would melt.
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My walk behind Honda is 24 years old and mowes a very large lot for a walk be hind. I use 1/2 qt of M1 5-10-30 and change once a year. Thats $2.50 a year. With a little top off, it's about $3 a year. No big deal for a mower.
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I've got 12 Honda gx160 5.5 hp air compressors. A couple with over 10000 hours on them.
I use an hdeo in the summer and a cheap 20 or 30 grade in the winter depending on temps. I change the oil bi-weekly unless the compressor has been sitting with out useage.
Because of the short intervals there is very little point in using a synthetic. I max run at 100 hours. Fuel dilution is a real issue and I've often go more oil in the crankcase at oil change time than what I originally put in because of so much fuel getting into the crankcase.
I buy pails of oil for that stuff from Walmart. 45 bucks a pail is just to good a deal to pass up.
Only 1 of my generators has ever been opened up and it was because it was run without oil for an unknown length of time and was an exploratory tear down.
I use mos2 in every second oil change. It doesn't take much an a whole can services all the compressors.
With mos2 in the oil the compressors are an easy pull even in -35.
I use an hdeo in the summer and a cheap 20 or 30 grade in the winter depending on temps. I change the oil bi-weekly unless the compressor has been sitting with out useage.
Because of the short intervals there is very little point in using a synthetic. I max run at 100 hours. Fuel dilution is a real issue and I've often go more oil in the crankcase at oil change time than what I originally put in because of so much fuel getting into the crankcase.
I buy pails of oil for that stuff from Walmart. 45 bucks a pail is just to good a deal to pass up.
Only 1 of my generators has ever been opened up and it was because it was run without oil for an unknown length of time and was an exploratory tear down.
I use mos2 in every second oil change. It doesn't take much an a whole can services all the compressors.
With mos2 in the oil the compressors are an easy pull even in -35.
Originally Posted By: Nyati
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If you use cheaper regular oil over synthetic, and change it every 2 or 3 years, the rest of the mower or snow blower will probably rust away before the motor gives it up.,,
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I just gave away a Honda HRX-215 walk behind mower to the AmVets a month or so ago. I used it for 14 years, using Mobil 1 10-30 at the end of each season. Finally was blowing smoke and getting hard to start the last year or so. The deck ( cast aluminum) and drive were still working with no rust. Only thing I replaced in 14 years was one hard rubber wheel, and the nylon bag last year. I'm sure it will last 2-3 more years, I'm going to get a new Honda come mowing season.
Would conventional have lasted as long? Dunno- but at 1/2 quart a year- why?
Well, when you think of the thousands of mowers out there that have never had an oil change and continue to keep on keepin on, verses the hundreds of ones that get their oil changed with synthetic oil, the likely hood yours started smoking could be from fuel dilution.I've picked up mowers from the curb that have had bent shafts, mower decks rotted to where these nothing to attach the wheel to anymore, but their motors started and ran good with dark black oil, I'm willing to bet was factory fill regular oil. If you are in the lawn maintenance business and run your equiptment many hours, then yes change the oil more often. But I'm willing to bet regular oil is what they use, and still get crazy hours of use out of then for less $$$.,,
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If you use cheaper regular oil over synthetic, and change it every 2 or 3 years, the rest of the mower or snow blower will probably rust away before the motor gives it up.,,
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I just gave away a Honda HRX-215 walk behind mower to the AmVets a month or so ago. I used it for 14 years, using Mobil 1 10-30 at the end of each season. Finally was blowing smoke and getting hard to start the last year or so. The deck ( cast aluminum) and drive were still working with no rust. Only thing I replaced in 14 years was one hard rubber wheel, and the nylon bag last year. I'm sure it will last 2-3 more years, I'm going to get a new Honda come mowing season.
Would conventional have lasted as long? Dunno- but at 1/2 quart a year- why?
Well, when you think of the thousands of mowers out there that have never had an oil change and continue to keep on keepin on, verses the hundreds of ones that get their oil changed with synthetic oil, the likely hood yours started smoking could be from fuel dilution.I've picked up mowers from the curb that have had bent shafts, mower decks rotted to where these nothing to attach the wheel to anymore, but their motors started and ran good with dark black oil, I'm willing to bet was factory fill regular oil. If you are in the lawn maintenance business and run your equiptment many hours, then yes change the oil more often. But I'm willing to bet regular oil is what they use, and still get crazy hours of use out of then for less $$$.,,
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If you use cheaper regular oil over synthetic, . But I'm willing to bet regular oil is what they use, and still get crazy hours of use out of then for less $$$.,,
Less $ than $3? A $6 bottle last 2 oil changes.
If you use cheaper regular oil over synthetic, . But I'm willing to bet regular oil is what they use, and still get crazy hours of use out of then for less $$$.,,
Less $ than $3? A $6 bottle last 2 oil changes.
$1.99 a qt sale oil beats $3.00 a qt in my book.,,
This question comes up from time to time on here, and there always seems to be a lot of misconceptions about oil use in small engines.
First, remember the most important piece of information on this issue is that for years and years, and thousands upon thousands of hours of use, these same small engines ran on 30HD oil, add to that, the fact that a heck of a lot of people didn't do the correct maintenance, or in a lot of cases, no maintenance at all, and they still ran, for years, and years and years. Now, just to go a bit further with this, almost any oil from straight 20W to 20W50, and EVERYTHING in between has been used (or misused, as the case may be) and still these engines ran, and ran. Are you starting to get the picture? These engines are tough and reliable with almost anything in the sump. So, to answer your question, in the strictest sense, NO, you do not need synthetic oil.
Now, most of the guys who come here, are out for some more in the way of information. Some want to save as much money as possible, some want to protect their engines with nothing but the best, no matter the cost, and others just want as much protection as they can get without mortgaging the farm. We all have differing points of view, and come from different directions. Synthetic oil will handle the temperatures of air cooled engines better than dino oil. HDEO oils will also handle heat better, and they are much cheapter than syns. It's hard to beat the ability to stay in viscosity that 30HD has, but then again, 15W40 HDEO is also pretty good in that regard. So you see, the "BEST" is all in what you consider important.
If money is no object, it would be hard to beat oils like Mobil 1 HM, Rotella T6, and any such heavy duty oils. I am of the opinion that highly expensive boutique oils are neither worth the cash or the effort to fool with. I do, however, think that a "slightly" higher level of Zddp is a good thing for small engines. I don't think it's necessary to go to the motorcycle oils or racing oils with their 1500ppm+ levels, but something with 1000-1300ppm seems just right. You can go with higher priced oil, but it then seems to come to the point of diminishing returns. These oils would be, to my mind, the very best protection, anything in the 5W30 to 15W40 range that you feel comfortable with.
If you don't go the above route with syn oil, then you are ok to use almost anything in the same viscosity range in dino oils and I gotta tell you, it'll last a long time.
What's the difference between using the two extremes of oils over a period of time, who knows? but I bet the difference is not huge, but noticeable. That difference is what fuels the discussions here, and if you can answer that question, you're a genius.
First, remember the most important piece of information on this issue is that for years and years, and thousands upon thousands of hours of use, these same small engines ran on 30HD oil, add to that, the fact that a heck of a lot of people didn't do the correct maintenance, or in a lot of cases, no maintenance at all, and they still ran, for years, and years and years. Now, just to go a bit further with this, almost any oil from straight 20W to 20W50, and EVERYTHING in between has been used (or misused, as the case may be) and still these engines ran, and ran. Are you starting to get the picture? These engines are tough and reliable with almost anything in the sump. So, to answer your question, in the strictest sense, NO, you do not need synthetic oil.
Now, most of the guys who come here, are out for some more in the way of information. Some want to save as much money as possible, some want to protect their engines with nothing but the best, no matter the cost, and others just want as much protection as they can get without mortgaging the farm. We all have differing points of view, and come from different directions. Synthetic oil will handle the temperatures of air cooled engines better than dino oil. HDEO oils will also handle heat better, and they are much cheapter than syns. It's hard to beat the ability to stay in viscosity that 30HD has, but then again, 15W40 HDEO is also pretty good in that regard. So you see, the "BEST" is all in what you consider important.
If money is no object, it would be hard to beat oils like Mobil 1 HM, Rotella T6, and any such heavy duty oils. I am of the opinion that highly expensive boutique oils are neither worth the cash or the effort to fool with. I do, however, think that a "slightly" higher level of Zddp is a good thing for small engines. I don't think it's necessary to go to the motorcycle oils or racing oils with their 1500ppm+ levels, but something with 1000-1300ppm seems just right. You can go with higher priced oil, but it then seems to come to the point of diminishing returns. These oils would be, to my mind, the very best protection, anything in the 5W30 to 15W40 range that you feel comfortable with.
If you don't go the above route with syn oil, then you are ok to use almost anything in the same viscosity range in dino oils and I gotta tell you, it'll last a long time.
What's the difference between using the two extremes of oils over a period of time, who knows? but I bet the difference is not huge, but noticeable. That difference is what fuels the discussions here, and if you can answer that question, you're a genius.
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