Is synthetic really needed?

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I have two 4-stroke MTD products; a Craftsman-branded push mower powered by a B&S 190, and a Troy-Bilt 30" snowblower from Lowes.

They both have a rough life and I've been running clearance $2/qt German Castrol.

It takes me two hours to mow the lawn, and I imagine the oil gets cooked pretty well. I change it annually, which could be 100 hours. It takes a pint. I'd probably run Rotella T5 or T6 if I didn't have a good clearance oil stash.

The Chinese clone engine in the snowblower makes me uneasy, and I'll keep 0w-30 in it. Depending on the winter, that probably isn't more than 20 hours on annual changes, but it sees cold starts and full throttle all the time when I do run it. I have plenty of GC left anyhow.
 
Synthetic is called for in my snowblowers manual, and I use syn T6 in the mowers if Im not using rotella 15w-40.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
My parents mower recommends ND30. I will probably run some of the SJ 5w-30 M1 we have sitting in the garage.


Not a mower made in the last 40 years that calls for non detergent 30 weight oil. What mower is that? Maybe you meant SAE30 (detergent) oil?
 
Originally Posted By: bchannell
This question comes up from time to time on here, and there always seems to be a lot of misconceptions about oil use in small engines.
First, remember the most important piece of information on this issue is that for years and years, and thousands upon thousands of hours of use, these same small engines ran on 30HD oil, add to that, the fact that a heck of a lot of people didn't do the correct maintenance, or in a lot of cases, no maintenance at all, and they still ran, for years, and years and years. Now, just to go a bit further with this, almost any oil from straight 20W to 20W50, and EVERYTHING in between has been used (or misused, as the case may be) and still these engines ran, and ran. Are you starting to get the picture? These engines are tough and reliable with almost anything in the sump. So, to answer your question, in the strictest sense, NO, you do not need synthetic oil.

Now, most of the guys who come here, are out for some more in the way of information. Some want to save as much money as possible, some want to protect their engines with nothing but the best, no matter the cost, and others just want as much protection as they can get without mortgaging the farm. We all have differing points of view, and come from different directions. Synthetic oil will handle the temperatures of air cooled engines better than dino oil. HDEO oils will also handle heat better, and they are much cheapter than syns. It's hard to beat the ability to stay in viscosity that 30HD has, but then again, 15W40 HDEO is also pretty good in that regard. So you see, the "BEST" is all in what you consider important.

If money is no object, it would be hard to beat oils like Mobil 1 HM, Rotella T6, and any such heavy duty oils. I am of the opinion that highly expensive boutique oils are neither worth the cash or the effort to fool with. I do, however, think that a "slightly" higher level of Zddp is a good thing for small engines. I don't think it's necessary to go to the motorcycle oils or racing oils with their 1500ppm+ levels, but something with 1000-1300ppm seems just right. You can go with higher priced oil, but it then seems to come to the point of diminishing returns. These oils would be, to my mind, the very best protection, anything in the 5W30 to 15W40 range that you feel comfortable with.

If you don't go the above route with syn oil, then you are ok to use almost anything in the same viscosity range in dino oils and I gotta tell you, it'll last a long time.
What's the difference between using the two extremes of oils over a period of time, who knows? but I bet the difference is not huge, but noticeable. That difference is what fuels the discussions here, and if you can answer that question, you're a genius.


Excellent post.
 
Keep in mind that 30 or 40 years ago most small engines were in lawn mowers which only were used when its warm. Then snow blowers used when it was cold, now generators used anytime.

Given the low amount of oil (in QTs) in OPE engines, it is not a big financial decision to choose between synthetic or dino.
 
For me i wouldn't use anything but synthetic,lawn mowers/tractors usually spec 3600 rpm operating speeds and can run at high oil temps and with usually small sumps 1-2 qts why not for added protection at a reasonable cost.
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
In small air cooled snowblower and laun mower motors is synthetic really needed we are talking about engines that really don't turn much RPM. Do you think it will really make any difference in engine wear?


Just depends on the power density.

A large displacement low powered Briggs doesn't have the same need for protection as a high powered off road 4 wheeler or bike.

These days a good conventional and a synthetic are not nearly as far apart as they used to be.
 
I agree with that. The conventional motor oil is much better than it was in the past and the synthetic motor oils may actually have dropped somewhat. There is disagreement even on what should be considered a synthetic oil. And in a sense the typical conventional motor oil today is a synthetic oil in some ways.

For a small engine in a lawnmower I don't think it makes that much difference.
 
My 1954 Savage reel mower (2 hp Briggs on it) has the same little puff of smoke at startup it's had for the 23 years I've owned it. I can't speak for the maintenance it had before me, but it just gets straight 30 conventional oil once a year. It doesn't see cold temp startups like my tractor and blower which I use synthetic in.
 
Originally Posted By: Wheel
My 1954 Savage reel mower (2 hp Briggs on it) has the same little puff of smoke at startup it's had for the 23 years I've owned it. I can't speak for the maintenance it had before me, but it just gets straight 30 conventional oil once a year. It doesn't see cold temp startups like my tractor and blower which I use synthetic in.


When I was young we looked for them used & cheap and would use the motor on a mini-bike.
 
I am starting to understand that synthetic has a place in small air cooled engines such as generators and such that may be run for many hours on end but for the average Briggs and Stratton on a push mower, it is my opinion that a conventional should be more than adequate.
 
Originally Posted By: bchannell
This question comes up from time to time on here, and there always seems to be a lot of misconceptions about oil use in small engines.
First, remember the most important piece of information on this issue is that for years and years, and thousands upon thousands of hours of use, these same small engines ran on 30HD oil, add to that, the fact that a heck of a lot of people didn't do the correct maintenance, or in a lot of cases, no maintenance at all, and they still ran, for years, and years and years. Now, just to go a bit further with this, almost any oil from straight 20W to 20W50, and EVERYTHING in between has been used (or misused, as the case may be) and still these engines ran, and ran. Are you starting to get the picture? These engines are tough and reliable with almost anything in the sump. So, to answer your question, in the strictest sense, NO, you do not need synthetic oil.

Now, most of the guys who come here, are out for some more in the way of information. Some want to save as much money as possible, some want to protect their engines with nothing but the best, no matter the cost, and others just want as much protection as they can get without mortgaging the farm. We all have differing points of view, and come from different directions. Synthetic oil will handle the temperatures of air cooled engines better than dino oil. HDEO oils will also handle heat better, and they are much cheapter than syns. It's hard to beat the ability to stay in viscosity that 30HD has, but then again, 15W40 HDEO is also pretty good in that regard. So you see, the "BEST" is all in what you consider important.

If money is no object, it would be hard to beat oils like Mobil 1 HM, Rotella T6, and any such heavy duty oils. I am of the opinion that highly expensive boutique oils are neither worth the cash or the effort to fool with. I do, however, think that a "slightly" higher level of Zddp is a good thing for small engines. I don't think it's necessary to go to the motorcycle oils or racing oils with their 1500ppm+ levels, but something with 1000-1300ppm seems just right. You can go with higher priced oil, but it then seems to come to the point of diminishing returns. These oils would be, to my mind, the very best protection, anything in the 5W30 to 15W40 range that you feel comfortable with.

If you don't go the above route with syn oil, then you are ok to use almost anything in the same viscosity range in dino oils and I gotta tell you, it'll last a long time.
What's the difference between using the two extremes of oils over a period of time, who knows? but I bet the difference is not huge, but noticeable. That difference is what fuels the discussions here, and if you can answer that question, you're a genius.


You've made a number of good points. However, I will take exception to the longevity statement of those old engines running straight 30. An objective look at engine lifespan measured in hours is required. Mowers powered by Briggs engines, 30W oil and used in seasonal service may accumulate as much as 25 hours per year, often quite less. 250 hours over 10 years really is not much. It's no wonder these engines "Seem" to last forever. Objectively, those same engines wear out early when used for tasks requiring continuous use. Such as construction generator use, continuous duty water pumps and so on. Low end lawn mower type engines are NOT robust, long life engines. A practical maximum is often 250 hours. The EPA backs up my point with a emissions rating system that clearly lists low end engines as emissions compliant for 25% of the time of the higher end equipment.

I have 2 FL acres and 12 harsh TN acres. My equipment gets used extensively. Since I demand performance from my OPE, much of which is not "high end stuff" , I've learned to use quality synthetic oil and change it often. It simply eliminates problems with continuous duty engines, doing heavy work, in hot conditions.

I agree with your choices of oils.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Synthetics are most useful at extreme temps. If you need to start your snowblower in sub-freezing temps (the temp of the machine where it is stored) or run OPE engines at length in 80F+ summer heat, then synthetics are helpful in starting the machine and keeping it running well.

For everything in between, a good mineral oil with a decent add-pack is more than adequate.

AND, if your OPE engine does not have an oil filter, it might be BETTER to use a mineral oil and change it regularly than to use a high $$$ synthetic and be tempted to stretch the oil interval out a bit longer. The debris suspended in the oil will probably be accelerating wear at that point, synthetic or not.


When I use my 190cc 3000psi pressure washer in the 120°heat, I slipped 2050in it last year, ran it the other day in the 60° cool and she ran fine... but, come the heat, I'll get it nice and hot and drain it, might run hdeo 1540 or buy a quart of cheap synthetic 10/30 or 5/40
 
I think there are two separate issues at play here:

1) The quality of the blended oil, primarily the additive package (and primarily anti-wear adds).

2) The temperature extremes, primarily high heat.

For the first item, synthetic is not a concern as you can get (pretty much) the same high quality add packs with any kind of base oil, synthetic or conventional (and the gap between the two has narrowed considerably in the last 10-15 years).

For the second item, it usually comes down to engines that are run for long times or during high-heat conditions. This is where synthetics really shine. Additionally, there is the better flow characteristics at extremely low temperatures.
 
Cujet, I take your point and agree. When I spoke of longevity, I was thinking in terms of occasional use OPE. I do think that extreme temps and extreme use, as in long continuous use, are the very situations where synthetic oil can show it's superiority, and very noticeably better results.
 
i change my oil in everything once a year and i have a big piece of property.
My brother has a lawnmower that is 9 years old and he never changed it until last year at my shop
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
In small air cooled snowblower and laun mower motors is synthetic really needed we are talking about engines that really don't turn much RPM. Do you think it will really make any difference in engine wear?


Like cashmoney states the cost to use synthetic is next to nothing in these cases. But most all will agree synthetic is not required by those who have been pushing lawn mowers for 50+ years with nothing but much lower quality oil than we have today.

I pick up a quart of dino from time to time so when someone comes mooching I can help them out.
smile.gif
 
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