Is synthetic really better?

[camrydriver111]

I find it interesting how these two kinds of threads pop up on BITOG from time to time:

1) "What is the point of synthetic if you can get 300k on conventional?"

2) "What is the point of conventional when synthetic is better in every way?"

Originally Posted By: Clevy
In fact there is a strong case that conventional oils contribute to less wear vs their synthetic counterparts when running a 5000 mile or less interval.


I hear guys claiming this on BITOG from time to time. Can you point me to some evidence?

 

[KrisZ]

Is synthetic better, yes. But those benefits really come into play at the extremes. Be it extreme temperatures or drain intervals. The biggest mistake people make is correlate those better extreme characteristics of synthetics with less wear and therefore longer lasting engines in everyday grocery getters driven in fairly mild climates.

Using synthetics in cars and conditions that don't warrant it is pretty much identical to using a super sports car to commute. There is no question that a sports car has superior performance when compared to regular economy cars. But it will not get you any faster to work in a commute type environment.
Same thing with synthetics. If you use them in an environment where their performance advantage cannot truly shine, they will not protect the engine any better and therefore give a longer lasting engine.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

Depends. In my 2.2 Ecotec, I ran Quaker State Ultimate Durability (synthetic) for 7500. It still had plenty of TBN and was within viscocity spec. Mom ran Quaker State Advanced Durability (conventional) in her 2.2 Ecotec for 7500. It had TBN
7500 is the OLM interval.

Both "worked" but the synthetic had more headroom.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Depends. In my 2.2 Ecotec, I ran Quaker State Ultimate Durability (synthetic) for 7500. It still had plenty of TBN and was within viscocity spec. Mom ran Quaker State Advanced Durability (conventional) in her 2.2 Ecotec for 7500. It had TBN
7500 is the OLM interval.

Both "worked" but the synthetic had more headroom.


And a lot of times, this stuff can be had on sale at close to conventional prices.

 

[53' Stude]

I am neutral on the whole syn vs conventional blend deal. Especially since I have ran Smitty's Super S blend in a Gm to 9,700 and I had like 3.0 TBN left. This is a 359k tank(97' Bonneville). Hard to put syn in it and go same distance as I think a syn would hold up ok

My mechanic minded opinion. Plus, $7.99 for a blend like Smitty's or $18~ for good MC synblend

 

[CT8]

Yes, no, it depends.

 

[MikeHigg]

For the Crown Vic I have I've run 10w30 synthetic (Mobil1) and conventional (currently Castrol GTX), it seems to burn slightly less on conventional oil. I change every 3K on conventional, 6K on the synthetic. One of the large Nashville cab companies got a couple of CV police cars here locally on bid, the guy driving one of them back to Nash had my mechanic check the car prior to the 3 hour drive (it had about 165K on it) and he told me they put them in the shop and bring everything up to standard, repainted them, then ran them for 500K+ miles, they even had one with about 900K. Wish I'd asked more about their maintenance program now. My Crown Vic has 8 grease points in the front end, a water-cooled oil cooler, separate transmission cooler, and separate power steering pump cooler, all standard from the factory.

 

[CT8]

An engines wear is minimal when at operating temps. I imagine a cab spends most of its life near or at operating temps.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
20W-50 in a Ford 4.6L Modular ? How does the oil get in there without splitting the engine apart ?
why would the engine split apart?

 

[53' Stude]

You're talking to Merk; he likes this garbage as much as SAE 60&70 weight oils LOL!

 

[Doog]

Syn oil is expensive....engines are cheap to replace. If I use syn blend Pennzoil vs PP in my Lexus in 200k I save $400.

If I gum up a VVT oil screen or valve I'll spend that in repairs.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Friend of mine put 20w-50 in his Jeep 4.0. It was leaking from everything but the timing cover gasket.

It didn't slow the leak down but those lifters were NOT happy!

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Syn oil is expensive....engines are cheap to replace. If I use syn blend Pennzoil vs PP in my Lexus in 200k I save $400.

If I gum up a VVT oil screen or valve I'll spend that in repairs.


What is your obsession with VVT screens?

 

[AirgunSavant]

Oil is cheaper yet.
No motor work is cheap even if you do it yourself.
However I learned long ago that overkill is not always
good...........


Originally Posted By: Doog
Syn oil is expensive....engines are cheap to replace. If I use syn blend Pennzoil vs PP in my Lexus in 200k I save $400.

If I gum up a VVT oil screen or valve I'll spend that in repairs.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Depends. In my 2.2 Ecotec, I ran Quaker State Ultimate Durability (synthetic) for 7500. It still had plenty of TBN and was within viscocity spec. Mom ran Quaker State Advanced Durability (conventional) in her 2.2 Ecotec for 7500. It had TBNspan>.

7500 is the OLM interval.

Both "worked" but the synthetic had more headroom.


+1

Every other parameters being equal, synthetics has higher margin of safety,in terms of engine

wear protection,over a conventional oil.

In this classic example, the difference in safety margin between synthetic and conventional , is

actually making a real difference in engine wear protection on similar model engine ............

though there is always floating around here the contention that 'better' safety margin doesn't

equate to longer lasting engine!

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

I've used Mobil I since about 1978. Never had an engine failure but never keep vehicles beyond about 75,000 miles. I found synthetic oil very beneficial in locations that get very cold in the winter-- like Craig, Colorado. For most individuals, a top tier non-synthetic is probably the best choice.Most owners don't give a big rat's *** about what oil is in the crankcase as long as their vehicle starts up and gets them where they need to be.

 

[CT8]

The thought process of syn oils vs [coventional] oils is so 1970s. Marketing as its best. Todays oil whether syn or [conventional] are more similar than different.The additive packages are similar years ago the add packages in the boutique syn oils were similar to the HDEOS that is why they promoted 25,000 mile or 1 year. To days add packages are improved and the requirements for the ratings are sky high as compared to 25 years ago. Syn oils can have advantages and if the advantages are used or needed they can be the way to go . But to use syn as a [conventional ] oil is used is fooling ourselves the results of the used oil analysis show there is no difference.

 

[bruno]

Syn is expensive ???
Is $26/5qut jug for Mobil 1 0w40 to rich for your blood ?

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: bruno
Syn is expensive ???
Is $26/5qut jug for Mobil 1 0w40 to rich for your blood ?


If you change every 5k it might be.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
500k on SuperTech 20W-50? A couple of guys will be spitting up their coffee this morning.

I would suggest that a 10w30 (or even an SAE 30) would have been a better choice in Miami. The lower HTHS would save fuel. Of course, it would be a very small amount, but this is fleet usage.