Is E10 Gas Really That Bad for OPE?

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Thank you SubLGT, but that can't be good advice or right, because someone on the Internet stated they have had no problem with E10 in their OPE.
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Or maybe, just maybe, those who have equipment that sits more, and get exposed to more water (from the pump, air, whatever), maybe those few really do have more problems with E10 than real gas.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
I have been researching portable generators, for a future purchase, and came across these comments from Champion Power Equipment:

"Our engines work well with 10% or less ethanol blend fuels. When using blended fuels there are some issues worth noting:

– Ethanol-gasoline blends can absorb more water
than gasoline alone.

– These blends can eventually separate, leaving
water or a watery goo in the tank, fuel valve and
carburetor.

– With gravity-fed fuel supplies, this compromised
fuel can be drawn into the carburetor and cause
damage to the engine and/or potential hazards.

– There are only a few suppliers of fuel stabilizer
that are formulated to work with ethanol blend fuels.

– Any damages or hazards caused by using
improper fuel, improperly stored fuel, and/ or
improperly formulated stabilizers, are not covered by manufacture’s warranty.

-It is advisable to always shut off the fuel supply, run the engine to fuel starvation
and drain the tank when the equipment is not in use for more than 30 days."



Think propane for a generator.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
You can add all the additives you want; the Ethanol and the water are still there.



Ethanol likely, especially with E10. I make sure and don't put water in my fuel tanks. Never found it to be a good alternative fuel. I don't even leave the cap off when it is raining, like some might. And all fuel that goes in the tank goes thru a Mr. Funnel to eliminate any water that the fuel supplier might have put in the fuel as a joke. Just can't trust anyone nowadays.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
equipment that sits more, and get exposed to more water


You hit on it right there. Neglect, and water. The two biggest problems since long before E10 was ever dreamed about. Whatever did we do before we had the boogieman E10 to blame everything on? We couldn't blame ourselves and our storage habits, could we?
 
Haha, it's bad E10 and bad chinese craftmanship that makes dirt plug up the carbs and old cracked petroleum fuel gets stale. Yep. Absolutely. Just don't mention neglective owners.

The only thing E10 does is to reduce dependency on the arab oil wells and reduce net co2 a slight bit. It does not blow up OPE any more than regular cracked gas does.

This E10 talk is just a urban legend that correlates with mower problems in this minute. But guess what, OPE reliability was just as bad 30 yrs ago or worse!
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It's just that memory plays us.

Improvements in the broken ope also correlates with the fact that the owner:
1. Repair the engine and clean it, start keeping it in a shed
2. Start paying attention to corrosion, lube, spark plug
3. Hear about old fuel and E10
4. Buys a gallon of "new fuel" with no E in it and also start to rotate the jugs to avoid old fuel.

Result? Yes, it seems that taking care of the equipment actually works. But the not so sharp user draws the other conclusion: I stopped using E10 (and started doing lots of maintenance but I forget that work) and, behold, my stuff works! No more E10. It was not the rain, not dirty cans, not old plugs, not bad filters that killed my stuff, it was the bloody fuel!

Rant, I know.
 
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So now I'm not so sharp, and a neglectful owner.

I guess that one Winter of non-use with E10 and Stabil that left a carb totally plugged and corroded was neglect and ignorance, even though that sort of thing was OK before E10.

I guess the second Winter when the same thing happened again was more of the same.

Curiously no such problems since then on E0 or storing empty. But what do I know, I've only been repairing and maintaining OPE for, oh 35 years. No other changes to the routine. Global warming to blame maybe? I wouldn't know. Apparently I'm considered not too sharp here. Silly me still uses E10 after all. I just don't store OPE with it any more.
 
Nope. No neglect sighted or confirmed.

I have had a generator carb gunk up into a solid ball of gelled fuel despite stabilizer.

And you are right, this hardly EVER happened before E10. An awful lot of boat owners feel the same way...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
An awful lot of boat owners feel the same way...


That's it. Its based on feelings. Not science. Ethanol is one of the best solvents to clean up gunk. If we had tools that ran on 100% ethanol there'd be no problems. You know what you have when ethanol evaporates. Nothing.

Its gas that dries and leaves gunk.
 
I will give you the boat tank problem, hands down. Boats with polyester, maybe vinyl ester too, tanks can't use any solvents in the gas.
But, I prefer staniless steel gas tanks if built into the structure. Otherwise, I'd go with HDPE.
 
Run E0 92 octane in everything now. But for the generator I think the answer is propane. Need to source a proper dual-fuel kit for it...

John.
 
How does ethanol gel anything? If your carb is filled with gel, there's something else going on. Over here, ethanol is commonly used as a -problem solver- for carburated enigines during winters because of its ability to solve water without freezing up the carbs.
What stabilizer do you use? I use stabil in all fuel except alkylate which is the only stable gas out there.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Nope. No neglect sighted or confirmed.

I have had a generator carb gunk up into a solid ball of gelled fuel despite stabilizer.

And you are right, this hardly EVER happened before E10. An awful lot of boat owners feel the same way...
 
Originally Posted By: lars11
How does ethanol gel anything? If your carb is filled with gel, there's something else going on. Over here, ethanol is commonly used as a -problem solver- for carburated enigines during winters because of its ability to solve water without freezing up the carbs.
What stabilizer do you use? I use stabil in all fuel except alkylate which is the only stable gas out there.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Nope. No neglect sighted or confirmed.

I have had a generator carb gunk up into a solid ball of gelled fuel despite stabilizer.

And you are right, this hardly EVER happened before E10. An awful lot of boat owners feel the same way...


+1. Even in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, if you left gas in too long in you OPE carb problems could happen.
 
I find that small engines run with E10 form (hard to see) deposits in the carb that look similar to the stuff hard water generates. Not a lot, just enough to cause problems with the newer, more fuel efficient carburetors . With some Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and their "Chonda" cousins, it clogs the one unreasonably small passage on their carburetors that you find when you remove the plastic plug on top. Don't know any science to back it up, but I know what I see as compared to engines run with pure, fresh unleaded gasoline.

I do, however, accuse customers occasionally of storing their fuel in an open 5 gallon bucket in the front yard.
 
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E10 is nasty stuff. I give a double dose of that tan Sta-Bil that protects against Ethanol in all of my fuel cans. My cans are stored in a dry shed along with all of my equipment, which helps, and I also run seasonal equipment out of fuel completely before storage. It seems to be the only way.

Any equipment that sits for a long time, especially being exposed to the elements, will suffer ethanol damage. Leaving stuff outside seems to be the worst. I took apart a push mower carb that was full of green algae. It had stabilizer in the fuel and was stored outside for about a month. It looked like it had been outside for 3 years with a tank full of water, not one month.

What really sucks is that you can't use 93 octane and assume it has no ethanol. All grades of fuel where I live have 10% ethanol, and E0 gas is pretty much non-existent. Often times you are just paying for 93 octane and the ethanol content is still the same, regardless of what the fuel station claims.
 
That's too bad. Seems some states just will not allow consumer choice. We have ethanol free regular and premium available all year round where I live. There are more E10 pumps around, but there is hardly a town that does not have ethanol free at some location. All 4 towns around me, I can get ethanol free quite easily. My only beef is that the retailers really rack up the price for ethanol free. E10 regular is going for $1.73 and ethanol free regular is $2.19. That has to be retailers taking advantage of the ethanol only crowd. There is no state requirement for those price spreads and the commodities market for fuels does not have that large of a spread.
 
Only draw back with E0 is it needs to sell to have fast rotation.

Having fresh fuel is always a plus as I believe E10 will start to degrade after 2 weeks. Of course it's a slow process none the less best getting gas from a busy station where rotation are frequent.

I do recall years ago Costco was selling really cheap gas compared to other stations due to the price of crude swing to gain more costumers. Costco has sway with the refinery as they are their biggest costumers the way it goes. Gas was coming not from the storage tanks but freshly made, felt like the gas was on steroids really lively. When the price levelled off Costco was getting gas like other stations. There was a difference in performance many others had said the same.
 
Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
Only draw back with E0 is it needs to sell to have fast rotation...


I have only seen 92 octane E0 gasoline in my area, and it is a lot more expensive than regular grade E10. I have to wonder how long it has been sitting in the storage tank.
 
The instructions for the Mantis contained pretty much the same info. Yes, most of the troubles came from E 10 attacking the crud deposited by past gas. I was faced with the rebuild kit versus new carb dilemmaI went for the kit and it didn't fix the trouble.I will try the new carb route now.
 
Well, again you will be disappointed, -cracked E0 gasoline- is not stable, ethanol or not. It will degrade quite quickly and since no one knows exactly the composition of cracked gas, the deposits will be hard to predict. Can be light fumes that leaves nothing OR laquer like goo. This behaviour is what causes the confused results and discussions.

Old style heat refined gasoline or bensin, was quite stable but that was a looong time ago.

E0 is not your answer to stable fuel, like it or not.

E0/E5/E10 with stabil et al is ok for a few months of storage, ~6.
Stihl pre mix et al is safe for storage for say a few years or more. Will leave nothing if evaporated.
 
But you are right in a way, a few years ago I had lots of ethanol around new year's, and when I emptied the "tank" the day after, there sure was a lot of "debris" that did not smell right...
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And there was absolutely no gasoline in those bottles, so we can eliminate that too..
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