Is E10 Gas Really That Bad for OPE?

[Donald]

I think the the main problem with E10 is not using the fuel on a regular basis. A snowblower is probably worse over summer than a mower over the winter. Generators may not be used until the next power failure and that is unknown.

In cars used on a normal basis should not be a issue.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Originally Posted By: Donald
I think the the main problem with E10 is not using the fuel on a regular basis. A snowblower is probably worse over summer than a mower over the winter. Generators may not be used until the next power failure and that is unknown.

In cars used on a normal basis should not be a issue.


What makes E10 less tolerant to aging than E0? Because I've read articles stating the exact opposite… that ethanol actually works like a fuel stabilizer and any moisture that gets into the fuel is pulled into solution, instead of dropping out (like oil/vinegar).

I've been using E10 for YEARS and I haven't had any issues that I could directly relate to ethanol itself. Fuel, regardless of ethanol, goes bad with age. OPE is generally stored outdoors, where large temp/humidity swings can introduce water/moisture into the fuel system. Also any fuel in the carb eventually dries up and THAT usually leaves varnish (ethanol or not), which can clog jets and such.

Anyway, E10 is all we get here in CT and it works fine for me. I add some fuel stabilizer (Stabil Marine) just to make me feel better when storing for longer periods of time.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Remember when we had to add HEET to gasoline to keep the water in suspension prior to E10? HEET was just ethanol or methanol.

I think the guys going out of their way to only put E0 in the tank and are having trouble need to guy buy some HEET. (Or save some money and just buy E10.)

 

[TiredTrucker]

And as was stated to some degree, the small stuff has vented fuel tanks whereas auto/pickup versions are vent free and sealed. For long term storage, ethanol free along with a good stabilizer is probably the best approach, especially if fuel is subject to a lot of expansion and contraction as temps fluctuate in higher humidity areas. But even for a standby generator use, I would have the fuel shut off and the carb run dry from the last use. Even if there was some phasing issues or whatever, one could just pull the fuel line and drain some of it before using the generator. I acknowledge it is not always practical to totally drain some of the large fuel tanks on the larger generators. So some basic common sense fuel handling methodology can mitigate most if not all problems that could crop up. We tend to follow a use and forget mentality that has negated proven things that folks did "back in the day", that if we followed those old time proven techniques, we probably would solve a lot of the problems that some have.

That could be why most of us out in the rural areas of the country rarely have serious fuel related issues. We never forgot the stuff that the folks who came before us learned and taught us. E10 has been in the system for 40 years. It seems that only those who are new to it have any issues.

 

[Cujet]

I've had trouble with fuel lines hardening and cracking with ethanol fuels. My JD tractor was particularly difficult to repair, as a full disassembly was required. The chainsaws were also a pain to fix.

The replacement Tygon lines are trouble free.

However, the ethanol gas does go bad rapidly here, and is junk within 3 months. The 90 octane rec fuel lasts well over a year.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

Had 0 issues with E10, with any vehicle or OPE.

 

[Delta]

No issues for me either. I've been using Seafoam as a stabilizer actually. I've had the same fuel in a can (sealed tight, obviously) since April and I just used some to test out the snow-blower. Still good.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

No issues here either. My 20 year old snowblower started right up with last year's gas still in the tank. All the pumps around here are labeled E10.

I do add Stabil and some TCW3 as a precaution, but I haven't had any problems since the ethanol was added.

 

[andyd]

It was the kiss of death for 40 yr old gas lines on my Ariens snow blower. Or something was. I got sick of messing with the old Tecumseh flathead. I re-powered with a Predator.My first new engine in decades. It is a very easy starting engine. I moved it out of storage . I pulled it over slowly twice, the 3rd pull was for real and it lit right off. I'm confident heading into my 3rd season with it. I add MMO only. I also run the carb dry after every use.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
What makes E10 less tolerant to aging than E0? Because I've read articles stating the exact opposite… that ethanol actually works like a fuel stabilizer and any moisture that gets into the fuel is pulled into solution, instead of dropping out (like oil/vinegar).


You've got it backwards. I don't know why I have to repeat this, as I have to bring it up on every E10 rant/counter-rant thread here.

Ethanol is hygroscopic, and when it aggressively absorbs moisture, it also phase separates with the water into the bottom of the tank or float bowl. It does NOT work like dry gas (methanol) to make water miscable. It works like the opposite.

Once phase separation occurs, that's when the problems really begin. If the equipment is used and refueled often, this isn't a problem. Thus you have plenty of folks saying it's not a problem, never had a problem, etc. etc. as if there is no problem for others.

I've had amazing crud in the bottom of float bowl of a push mower even with Stabil. I cleaned it all up two Springs in a row with rebuild kits and it right came back after each Winter storage, the last time it was not salvageable but a new $22 carb fixed it. Since then I've used non-ethanol gas for another 5 Winters with ZERO problems.

At the same time I've had similar episodes with a weed wacker and I've fixed a bunch of yard sale equipment with the same crud in the carbs, and then never had any problem again using E0.

But yet some yahoos who use equipment often or live in Arizona insist on saying there's no problem. Yeah, no problem for them. If you live in a high humidity area with a long Winter storage season, you can have problems.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: HangFire

But yet some yahoos who use equipment often or live in Arizona insist on saying there's no problem. Yeah, no problem for them. If you live in a high humidity area with a long Winter storage season, you can have problems.


No problems here from a "yahoo" in PA who just treats his gas with Stabil Red + MMO and fills all the tanks prior to storage in winter. Storage is the outside enclosed shed. Going on 4 years with the pressure washer, 6 with the lawnmower, 5 with the generator, 3 with the lawn tractor, God knows how may with the leaf blower, and 3 with the weed whacker. The only thing I bother with is the snow blower - that gets drained and treated with WD-40 at the end of the season.

So yeah in a climate like yours I've go no problems with E10.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Another "yahoo" here in humid Illinois. I'll bet we have longer colder winters than in MD as well.

I'm not going to wish for fuel system problems to try and gain your approval. I'll keep using E10 and be happy.

 

[Mamala Bay]

E10 problems from experience is more with 2 stroke mixture. 2 stroke mixture are used with in a 2 week period. Fuel is always emptied when not in use for more than 2 days. After so many hours engine is torn down and manually cleaned. A 2 stroke application is dirty application having a clean system prolongs longevity. E0 with the older Shindaiwa trimmers lasted for many hours never needed to watch for fuel usage but again 5-8 gallons of fuel was used per week so you had a high rotation. I've experienced a small 4 stroke Kohler engine that gum the fuel system that was left out for 4 months with fuel in the tank. Carelessness as the equipment was down but fuel was not emptied.
Tank and fuel system was cleaned runs like before. With E0 never had or seen any gum fuel system so E10 has the potential.

Fuel is from the tank mixture and not from a gas station. Fresh fuel are used.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
What makes E10 less tolerant to aging than E0? Because I've read articles stating the exact opposite… that ethanol actually works like a fuel stabilizer and any moisture that gets into the fuel is pulled into solution, instead of dropping out (like oil/vinegar).


You've got it backwards. I don't know why I have to repeat this, as I have to bring it up on every E10 rant/counter-rant thread here.

Ethanol is hygroscopic, and when it aggressively absorbs moisture, it also phase separates with the water into the bottom of the tank or float bowl. It does NOT work like dry gas (methanol) to make water miscable. It works like the opposite.

Once phase separation occurs, that's when the problems really begin. If the equipment is used and refueled often, this isn't a problem. Thus you have plenty of folks saying it's not a problem, never had a problem, etc. etc. as if there is no problem for others.

I've had amazing crud in the bottom of float bowl of a push mower even with Stabil. I cleaned it all up two Springs in a row with rebuild kits and it right came back after each Winter storage, the last time it was not salvageable but a new $22 carb fixed it. Since then I've used non-ethanol gas for another 5 Winters with ZERO problems.

At the same time I've had similar episodes with a weed wacker and I've fixed a bunch of yard sale equipment with the same crud in the carbs, and then never had any problem again using E0.

But yet some yahoos who use equipment often or live in Arizona insist on saying there's no problem. Yeah, no problem for them. If you live in a high humidity area with a long Winter storage season, you can have problems.


Yes, pure-ethanol is very hydroscopic. It'll attract and absorb moisture… but it'll only fall out of solution once its fully saturated… i.e., at which point it is no longer hydroscopic (fully saturated). Wheres water in non-ethanol fuel will simply separate and NEVER be in solution. Even though non-ethanol fuel is not hydroscopic, water can still condense inside a partially filled vented-tank and then it simply settles to the bottom.

That's why I also fill ALL my tanks to the brim for LONG storage… reduce the air space inside and thus the amount of moisture that can condense. Especially metal tank that'll start to surface rust on the inside.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I had my Stihl trimmer not start after sitting over winter. I tried starting fluid (I know bad with 2 stroke) but it was just a test to see if it fired which it did. I looked for rebuild kit for carb in case I needed it. $34 shipped for a BRAND NEW carbwith primer etc. For that price (which is not much IMO) I said let me try cleaning what I have to see If I can fix first. If not in 2 days, 4 screws total to remove/replace I can have new. Not worth going to shop.

The inside was totally corroded and pitted I used cleaner, brass brush, thin wire etc. put it all back together and has worked fine since. Now I drain the fuel after i run trufuel through it anyway.

That's why the shops replace 15 minutes to replace. 1 hour to clean. Just did same for a Briggs thatcher for neighbor. No start run issue. Cleaned all first to try with no luck. Carb kit was $35 and had to be ordered. New carb in stock for $43. No brainer.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Then try something like the Amsoil QuickShot in your fuel. It claims to address E10 issues for small engines. Maybe someone can confirm.

 

[HangFire]

You can add all the additives you want; the Ethanol and the water are still there.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
As I've said in the past, I've used E10 in everything I own for more than 3 decades. Never a single fuel related problem.


Same here. E10 is (primarily) all that's been available for close to 30yrs now where I live.

Like mentioned, I have repaired issues caused by gunked up fuel systems due to gross neglect.

Normal OPE service? No worries with E10.

 

[asand1]

Living on the Oregon coast I have no problems with running OPE on E10. OPE I have acquired that were left in the rain or sat for 15 years always need a carb kit and then no problems.

 

[SubLGT]

I have been researching portable generators, for a future purchase, and came across these comments from Champion Power Equipment:

"Our engines work well with 10% or less ethanol blend fuels. When using blended fuels there are some issues worth noting:

– Ethanol-gasoline blends can absorb more water
than gasoline alone.

– These blends can eventually separate, leaving
water or a watery goo in the tank, fuel valve and
carburetor.

– With gravity-fed fuel supplies, this compromised
fuel can be drawn into the carburetor and cause
damage to the engine and/or potential hazards.

– There are only a few suppliers of fuel stabilizer
that are formulated to work with ethanol blend fuels.

– Any damages or hazards caused by using
improper fuel, improperly stored fuel, and/ or
improperly formulated stabilizers, are not covered by manufacture’s warranty.

-It is advisable to always shut off the fuel supply, run the engine to fuel starvation
and drain the tank when the equipment is not in use for more than 30 days."