I've been wondering about the upcoming super compacts. The Gold R, Focus RS, STi. I keep hearing AWD sucks if you have a typical VTEC Honda, because you can just pull by. Honda seems to be stepping away from the ultra high revving K series, F Series and the NSX C30/32. Is AWD really worthwhile?
Is AWD in racing really worthwhile?
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Now AWD, but this seems like fun!
3 cylinder, 2 stroke and 5 on the tree! https://youtu.be/fvBhMHZxFRQ?t=1m5s
3 cylinder, 2 stroke and 5 on the tree! https://youtu.be/fvBhMHZxFRQ?t=1m5s
IDK...modified Subaru WRX STIs seem to do quite well on the twisty, turny Isle of Man course.
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In rally racing, yes. Subaru for example has history in rally racing which is how they developed their AWD systems. On the street/track RWD cars are usually preferred for how they handle.
A proper design can provide more neutral handling, but what constitutes a proper design is open to question. AWD for a race track may not be a good street setup.
All AWD is not created equal. For example (not to pick on Ford, its just one I know about) the Ford Taurus PI and Explorer PI are nominally AWD, but its really a FWD system that shunts torque to the rear wheels only when the front wheels lose traction. There is no center differential, just a "power take-off" that drives a shaft to the rear differential, and a clutch in-line that engages or disengages the drive to the rear diff under control of the traction control system.
True AWD systems that mechanically distribute torque to all the wheels even before any wheel loses traction make for much more predictable handling. And there are lots of variations on those, too- with and without electronic intervention, with and without different types of limited-slip differential (front, rear, and center). etc.
Overall, I'd say AWD is only useful in racing series like rally, where there are lots of surfaces with different levels of grip and traction is often very limited. On oval courses and even paved road-courses, AWD just hasn't proven much of an advantage, and in fact the weight and power consumption of the added components overcomes those advantages. F1 builders fooled around with AWD going way, way back, but its just never been particularly competitive
True AWD systems that mechanically distribute torque to all the wheels even before any wheel loses traction make for much more predictable handling. And there are lots of variations on those, too- with and without electronic intervention, with and without different types of limited-slip differential (front, rear, and center). etc.
Overall, I'd say AWD is only useful in racing series like rally, where there are lots of surfaces with different levels of grip and traction is often very limited. On oval courses and even paved road-courses, AWD just hasn't proven much of an advantage, and in fact the weight and power consumption of the added components overcomes those advantages. F1 builders fooled around with AWD going way, way back, but its just never been particularly competitive
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
All AWD is not created equal.
Agreed. Even the different AWD modes on the Grand Cherokee WK2 can change how the vehicle handles in different conditions.
All AWD is not created equal.
Agreed. Even the different AWD modes on the Grand Cherokee WK2 can change how the vehicle handles in different conditions.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
F1 builders fooled around with AWD going way, way back, but its just never been particularly competitive
It's hard to be competitive when the technology has been banned for 35 years.
That's really the story of AWD in competition: It's outright banned in so many motorsports, it's never been given a chance to really be developed properly and mature.
Since it is now fully paved, Pikes Peak can give a pretty good idea as to just how capable and dominant an AWD vehicle can be on a grippy surface when it's actually permitted to compete.
F1 builders fooled around with AWD going way, way back, but its just never been particularly competitive
It's hard to be competitive when the technology has been banned for 35 years.
That's really the story of AWD in competition: It's outright banned in so many motorsports, it's never been given a chance to really be developed properly and mature.
Since it is now fully paved, Pikes Peak can give a pretty good idea as to just how capable and dominant an AWD vehicle can be on a grippy surface when it's actually permitted to compete.
Even when AWD was not banned, there were enough limitations, especially on tire size, to make it worthless.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Both lovely and sickening to watch...
Hands up who would drive like them into a wall of people just opening up in front of you. My hands are down.
Both lovely and sickening to watch...
Hands up who would drive like them into a wall of people just opening up in front of you. My hands are down.
I think Ken Block demonstrates that properly set up AWD is a good thing.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Both lovely and sickening to watch...
Hands up who would drive like them into a wall of people just opening up in front of you. My hands are down.
You mean pre nanny state days where if you dumb enough to run in front of a car doing over 100 mph and got run over it was sort of your own fault? Its called cleaning the gene pool.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Both lovely and sickening to watch...
Hands up who would drive like them into a wall of people just opening up in front of you. My hands are down.
You mean pre nanny state days where if you dumb enough to run in front of a car doing over 100 mph and got run over it was sort of your own fault? Its called cleaning the gene pool.
sort of.
Don't get me wrong, I liked watching them, but I would need to switch off more than a few switches to drive a car into that fray myself. Rally became kind of pants after group B.
But then there's those that are on the sides watching, and are in immediate danger if a car loses traction...
Don't get me wrong, I liked watching them, but I would need to switch off more than a few switches to drive a car into that fray myself. Rally became kind of pants after group B.
But then there's those that are on the sides watching, and are in immediate danger if a car loses traction...
Here's an exception
5 years later, notice the difference in the crowds. I don't get the feeling things are going out of control here...
5 years later, notice the difference in the crowds. I don't get the feeling things are going out of control here...
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Both lovely and sickening to watch...
Hands up who would drive like them into a wall of people just opening up in front of you. My hands are down.
You mean pre nanny state days where if you dumb enough to run in front of a car doing over 100 mph and got run over it was sort of your own fault? Its called cleaning the gene pool.
Kind of like those crowds who stand too close to the offroad buggy events. There is a heavy 4x4 vehicle with giant tires and 500hp trying to navigate a steep rocky hill and you have people standing right next to it. There have been a few cases where people have gotten rolled over. The problem with standing so close is that if things start going south, the nature of the terrain makes it difficult to get out of the way quickly.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Both lovely and sickening to watch...
Hands up who would drive like them into a wall of people just opening up in front of you. My hands are down.
You mean pre nanny state days where if you dumb enough to run in front of a car doing over 100 mph and got run over it was sort of your own fault? Its called cleaning the gene pool.
Kind of like those crowds who stand too close to the offroad buggy events. There is a heavy 4x4 vehicle with giant tires and 500hp trying to navigate a steep rocky hill and you have people standing right next to it. There have been a few cases where people have gotten rolled over. The problem with standing so close is that if things start going south, the nature of the terrain makes it difficult to get out of the way quickly.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Kind of like those crowds who stand too close to the offroad buggy events. There is a heavy 4x4 vehicle with giant tires and 500hp trying to navigate a steep rocky hill and you have people standing right next to it. There have been a few cases where people have gotten rolled over. The problem with standing so close is that if things start going south, the nature of the terrain makes it difficult to get out of the way quickly.
There are plenty of videos out there of a Trophy Truck diving into a crowd or hitting someone why tries to run across the track as they come by at the Baja races. No sympathy for the onlookers. One of my customers has a Class 7 truck and a Raptor chase vehicle. The Raptor was taken out by another vehicle and they had to nurse it back across the border to get it fixed.
Kind of like those crowds who stand too close to the offroad buggy events. There is a heavy 4x4 vehicle with giant tires and 500hp trying to navigate a steep rocky hill and you have people standing right next to it. There have been a few cases where people have gotten rolled over. The problem with standing so close is that if things start going south, the nature of the terrain makes it difficult to get out of the way quickly.
There are plenty of videos out there of a Trophy Truck diving into a crowd or hitting someone why tries to run across the track as they come by at the Baja races. No sympathy for the onlookers. One of my customers has a Class 7 truck and a Raptor chase vehicle. The Raptor was taken out by another vehicle and they had to nurse it back across the border to get it fixed.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Even when AWD was not banned, there were enough limitations, especially on tire size, to make it worthless.
If you can implement AWD without adding weight(in a racing series where the minimum weight is easily met), then it should be nothing but an advantage.
I'm sure an AWD Cup car would be faster at all the tracks except the restrictor plate ones given equal weight and tires to a RWD car.
Even when AWD was not banned, there were enough limitations, especially on tire size, to make it worthless.
If you can implement AWD without adding weight(in a racing series where the minimum weight is easily met), then it should be nothing but an advantage.
I'm sure an AWD Cup car would be faster at all the tracks except the restrictor plate ones given equal weight and tires to a RWD car.
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