Is API SP rating desirable for 5W-40 Euro oils?

Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
43
Location
Michigan
The Castrol Edge 5W-40 A3/B4 Euro oil still lacks the API SP rating, as do several other competing Euro formulations. Two of the several improvements of the API SP rating over the SN predecessor are 1) a reformulation to help protect against low speed pre-ignition (LSPI), and 2) a test for timing chain elongation. While the European ratings (VW 505, MB 229.5, Porsche A40, BMW LL-01) are more demanding in general than the SP rating, do they adequately address these two areas of concern? While I am not too worried about LSPI, cam chains and tensioners seem to be the least reliable internally lubricated component in modern engines and are costly to repair. No question that some tensioner/chain problems are due to poorly designed hardware and over extended oil changes, but is part of the problem attributable to a weakness/oversight in the European specs themselves? Thus is it worth dropping Castrol for the latest Pennzoil and Quaker States reformulations that are SP compliant to get extra protection? And what's taking Castrol (and others) so long to switch over to SP in its Euro lineup? Thanks.
 
Euro car manufacturers probably aren’t as concerned with lspi, they didn’t make the switch to sn+, right? if I were to guess the euro oils will not be moving to the sp standard.
 
European OEMs are largely unconcerned with API specifications, instead using ACEA and their own approval systems to define and select oil performance. To give as wide a cover as possible, the oil suppliers will add API to ACEA specs where it is possible and sensible.
 
american ilsac oils have generally sucked, they are the ones playing catch up in reduced SAPS (for different reasons) and general performance. ACEA and API SAE 30 grade PCMOs became irreversibly separated after SL.

40 grade PCMOs have no longer been the focus for a long time but API decided to apply ca limits to SN+ which kicked out the vast majority of oils on the market. P limits of SP killed all survivors, except shell with their radically different add pack.

A3/B4 and the OEM approvals like 505/229.5/A40/LL-01/18 are all legacy oil standards and being phased out.
 
Last edited:
MB229.52 has LSPI test.
BMW LL01, LL04, LL12, LL14, LL17 have specific timing chain test done on N20/26 engine.
API SP has timing chain test on Toyota 2.5 engine which is not known to have any timing chain problems. Not sure what they use for LSPI testing. It could be just general requirement.
 
american ilsac oils have generally sucked, they are the ones playing catch up in reduced SAPS (for different reasons) and general performance. ACEA and API SAE 30 grade PCMOs became irreversibly separated after SL.

40 grade PCMOs have no longer been the focus for a long time but API decided to apply ca limits to SN+ which kicked out the vast majority of oils on the market. P limits of SP killed all survivors, except shell with their radically different add pack.

A3/B4 and the OEM approvals like 505/229.5/A40/LL-01/18 are all legacy oil standards and being phased out.
Being phased out? Based on what?
 
the many mid and low saps oils that have been entering the market for the past 10 years along with the widespread adoption of dpf and possibly gpfs.

you and i know european 10 tbn full saps oils are on their way out for new built vehicles
Those oils are starting to creep here. They are present in large numbers in Europe for a long time, yet no one phased out anything there.
Ot will happen, not anytime soon!
 
What for emissions control?
As mentioned in [ur=[URL]https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/is-api-sp-rating-desirable-for-5w-40-euro-oils.346110/post-5893448]Post[/URL] 9[/url]

Gasoline Particulate Filters (or Otto Particulate Filters) are being rolled in, to reduce particulate matter output on GDI engines. That requires lower SAPS like DPF's.
 
As mentioned in [ur=[URL]https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/is-api-sp-rating-desirable-for-5w-40-euro-oils.346110/post-5893448]Post[/URL] 9[/url]

Gasoline Particulate Filters (or Otto Particulate Filters) are being rolled in, to reduce particulate matter output on GDI engines. That requires lower SAPS like DPF's.
Did not know SP has GPF requirements. I understand Dexos II, and European ones. I understand it requires the same as DPF.
 
Indirectly by the sulfur level requirement.
Not to mention the phosphorus level controls. Sulfur isn't really a concern for DFPs or GPFs and strictly neither is phosphorus, but the P usually comes with Zn, which is a problem. Some of the S is also in the ZDDP but it comes in greater amounts from detergents (most base oils these days are largely S-free). There's no direct control over other ash-forming elements such as Ca or Mg, although these will be dealt with under various engine test requirements and, to some extent, the S requirement above.
API SP has timing chain test on Toyota 2.5 engine which is not known to have any timing chain problems. Not sure what they use for LSPI testing. It could be just general requirement.
The Sequence IX test is for LSPI and the Sequence X is for chain wear. Both are run on a 2012 Ford EcoBoost 2 litre GTDI engine (so, as is usual in API testing, not a modern engine and arguably not one that suffers either chain wear or LSPI in the field, but is run in a way to reliably and repeatably induce it).
 
Not to mention the phosphorus level controls. Sulfur isn't really a concern for DFPs or GPFs and strictly neither is phosphorus, but the P usually comes with Zn, which is a problem. Some of the S is also in the ZDDP but it comes in greater amounts from detergents (most base oils these days are largely S-free). There's no direct control over other ash-forming elements such as Ca or Mg, although these will be dealt with under various engine test requirements and, to some extent, the S requirement above.

The Sequence IX test is for LSPI and the Sequence X is for chain wear. Both are run on a 2012 Ford EcoBoost 2 litre GTDI engine (so, as is usual in API testing, not a modern engine and arguably not one that suffers either chain wear or LSPI in the field, but is run in a way to reliably and repeatably induce it).
As usual SP is behind any other approval and there is basically no meaningful application in European vehicles requiring manufacturers approval.
I know they limited Zinc and Pennzoil jumped on that bcs. their formula preceded SP like 5 years ahead. Other than that manufacturers will keep using SL, SM, SN for European vehicles without GPF, with GPF they will just move to ACEA C sequence which many already did.
 
Those oils are starting to creep here. They are present in large numbers in Europe for a long time, yet no one phased out anything there.
Ot will happen, not anytime soon!
A3/B4 is getting harder to find here in europe, the believe being that C3 can replace them. They can if the OCI is reduced only.
 
Back
Top