is a CUV/SUV overkill for everyday use?

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Originally Posted by Ws6
That is cool. You know, I have found people have interesting perceptions about AWD and biases. One of my friends bought a WRX STi and HATED it. Guy can drive. Had a spec'ed out Miata and tracked it, etc. Another friend bought a WRX STi and LOVES how it handles. He's a capable driver, as well.

My question is this...what do lap-times say? Can a pro driver dial a 435 in and turn a better lap time than the computer can? Back when I bought my Z06, and PTM came out, Randy Pobst was able to BARELY out-drive PTM on the track if he did EVERYTHING flawlessly. We are talking a tenth of a second or less. That's how good computers are. I am curious about how that goes with the BMW system, of if it's just for fun/circumstance/etc?


Yea I could imagine a spec miata driver hating how an STi drives, both requiring totally different driving styles. A fellow track driver who was driving his Evo X in NASA TT2 told me once, it makes bad drivers look good and good drivers look great, and I completely agree with that because of all the technology and reactions the computer can instantly react to.

Was that a video on MT? I think I watched that too. The Corvette has a great PTM from what I hear but that's also because it's a great performance car and I would imagine the Vette team to want to squeak out every bit of performance out of it since it is a popular track car.

I speculate that if you take a more-road-focused car like the 435 straight from the show room and put it into Pobst's hands, he would be able to drive it faster without all the computer aids. But for all us normal folks, it would probably be best to leave them on some sort of performance mode.
 
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I drive a Chevy Suburban every day. I don't ever see myself driving anything smaller. My wife drives a Kia Sorento. The only "car" we own is my 68 roadrunner.
 
Sedans of any size are obsolescent, impractical if you ever need to carry stuff and don't care to keep a second vehicle.
CUVs, being jacked-up hatchbacks (as someone else already pointed out in this thread), are an over-reaction to sedan limitations, but admittedly can be more practical and versatile.

I bought the Prius not as much because it's a hybrid as because it is one of the last remaining proper not-jacked-up, not-bobtailed hatchbacks. I recently hauled a ~100-pound, 7'3" tall grandfather clock in it. (I probably could've done the same in my outwardly much smaller '81 Mazda hatchback, which carried many other improbable cargoes in its long career.). Try that in a Corolla!
 
Originally Posted by CR94
Sedans of any size are obsolescent, impractical if you ever need to carry stuff and don't care to keep a second vehicle.
CUVs, being jacked-up hatchbacks (as someone else already pointed out in this thread), are an over-reaction to sedan limitations, but admittedly can be more practical and versatile.

I bought the Prius not as much because it's a hybrid as because it is one of the last remaining proper not-jacked-up, not-bobtailed hatchbacks. I recently hauled a ~100-pound, 7'3" tall grandfather clock in it. (I probably could've done the same in my outwardly much smaller '81 Mazda hatchback, which carried many other improbable cargoes in its long career.). Try that in a Corolla!


Just depends on the sedan and what you want to carry. I have 10+ units and managed to get along without a truck/suv for a while. In my Taurus, I was even able to carry a 10 foot copper pipe in the car with the trunk closed. I still prefer sedans, most of what I carry are passengers if that.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by edyvw
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It is a better track vehicle. My point was that the AWD system configuration isn't a problem. I must have missed the part where understeer was an issue...care to point it out? Looked like the car went EXACTLY where it was driven with no issues.
Also, with the X1, definitely need the 6-cylinder if it's going to be fun, IMO. It woulda been nice if BMW had an "in between" the thristy but fast N55, and the slower but thrifty 2.0. Pretty decent gap between the two that coula been filled, IMO. As it stands, I'd prefer my CX5 to any of them except the N55, and it just doesn't make as much sense for a daily driver for me, so yes, I am sure it would be better on the track with the N55, but I chose the best one for me by a long shot.



It is better vehicle, period.
You are posting some videos on dirt track, so I am referring to it. By the way, X1 has system that can transfer 100% of torque to front or rear axle, unlike Mazda, ANY Mazda AWD. Every topic has to be polluted by your admiration of that appliance vehicle that is just bit better than RAV4 or CR-V. Get a grip. You are hoping someone will show up and tell you: yes, you own luxury vehicle.
An no, X1 does not need 6cyl. On mountain roads that N20 would still beat the [censored] out of your CX-5, let alone previous one. On mountain roads, 0-60 does not matter.



The X1 handles better, sure. It's slower from a stop light or a highway roll without the N55, though. My CX5 does plenty well in the mountains and in ice/snow, etc. It's also not a BMW, which I consider a huge bonus when it comes to the actual ownership experience, especially after the first 75K miles or so. I don't care if you think the CX5 is a luxury vehicle or not. It has more creature comforts that I care about than the X1, and so it's what I went with, aside from the fact that I'm anti-BMW for long-term ownership. Coulda saved a LOT of money and bought a 5-10K mile old E84 N55 X1 if I had felt like it. No thank-you. Even if it IS faster and handles better.

You obviously care what people think because every friggin thread, whether it is about CUV, SUV, cars, off-road vehicles, construction vehicles, you post video of CX-5 hoping someone will finally say: yes, the ultimate luxury car.
Again, it is better executed vehicle, it has much better AWD (compared to your CX-5, I am not going even to mention old one. But that is not really hard to achieve anyway). Whether it is slower to 60 is irrelevant. That is important for those that have serious issues turning steering wheel while vehicle is moving.
Whether you want to buy BMW or not is irrelevant. You are obsessed with comparing your vehicle with BMW, Mercedes etc. which is obvious sign that actually you would like to own one. But, it is not for everyone.
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by edyvw

It is better vehicle, period.
You are posting some videos on dirt track, so I am referring to it. By the way, X1 has system that can transfer 100% of torque to front or rear axle, unlike Mazda, ANY Mazda AWD. Every topic has to be polluted by your admiration of that appliance vehicle that is just bit better than RAV4 or CR-V. Get a grip. You are hoping someone will show up and tell you: yes, you own luxury vehicle.
An no, X1 does not need 6cyl. On mountain roads that N20 would still beat the [censored] out of your CX-5, let alone previous one. On mountain roads, 0-60 does not matter.


On that note, did you see the program that was released where you can change the AWD bias of the BMW system? My coworker showed me for his 435i x-drive and he can switch it from 0/100 to 100/0 to anything in between within 10 seconds. That's pretty friggin nifty.

I have not driven 435i, I did 335i F30 xDrive and did not see that. But I know that new xDrive can be completely disconnected in M vehicles and work only as RWD. Not sure about FWD option. I highly doubt that.
But, BMW AWD is extremely RWD bias. It is not just 40/60% split. It is the fact that it is actual RWD platform. My X5 would throw its rear end in snow like nothing if one wanted, sideway. Actually it could turn around if one is not careful.
 
A modern CUV is a good all around vehicle. Even more so if you have bad weather, bad roads, lack of roads, or a desire to look like everyone else.

Personally i find the wagon to be the best of the sedan and CUV worlds. My favorite thing about them is they dont sell thousands of them everyday.

Drive what you like. Eventually we will all be forced to buy electric tesla shaped vehicles.
 
Originally Posted by dareo
A modern CUV is a good all around vehicle. Even more so if you have bad weather, bad roads, lack of roads, or a desire to look like everyone else.

Personally i find the wagon to be the best of the sedan and CUV worlds. My favorite thing about them is they dont sell thousands of them everyday.

Drive what you like. Eventually we will all be forced to buy electric tesla shaped vehicles.

I am not sure how bad roads or weather fits into this. Many cars have AWD (which does not equal immediately better performance). Bad roads? They are all made on car platforms mostly utilizing same suspension parts where it really counts. Unless higher clearance is absolutely necessary, there is no advantage in that aspect compared to cars. Now, Subaru might have a bit more "off roadish" suspension compared to other CUV's, but I would say that is exception to the rule.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw

You obviously care what people think because every friggin thread, whether it is about CUV, SUV, cars, off-road vehicles, construction vehicles, you post video of CX-5 hoping someone will finally say: yes, the ultimate luxury car.
Again, it is better executed vehicle, it has much better AWD (compared to your CX-5, I am not going even to mention old one. But that is not really hard to achieve anyway). Whether it is slower to 60 is irrelevant. That is important for those that have serious issues turning steering wheel while vehicle is moving.
Whether you want to buy BMW or not is irrelevant. You are obsessed with comparing your vehicle with BMW, Mercedes etc. which is obvious sign that actually you would like to own one. But, it is not for everyone.



An obvious sign that I would like to own a BMW or MB would BE owning one. Yeah? Lol, but no, I have no desire to own one at present, especially a half-decade old one. Were they to change a few things, then yes, but that isn't germane, really.

Also, got a question for you...why do you have such a brand obsession? You will make any excuse or fabricate/imagine anything you can to like MB/BMW/Audi.

Take this GLC300 for example. Back in that thread where I showed you it was louder, slower, got worse mpg, had the same features, etc. you have finally fallen back on "It's best because it has a longitudinal engine, that makes it a real vehicle". Now take this X1 deal. What excuse do you have for me for thinking the current X1 is "a real vehicle", considering it does NOT have a longitudinal engine? I mean, you're ALL about that brand, with zero care about the ACTUAL vehicle. It's amusing.
[Linked Image from carsguide-res.cloudinary.com]


Quick! Come up with an excuse/reason why the current X1 is good even though it has the #1 feature you hate that "makes it not a real car"! Or is only the half decade old E84 X1 good? Is this new X1 NOT a luxury vehicle? Is it just a CX5 with a BMW badge and a smaller engine and less features? Is the fact that it has a weight distribution of 57/43% instead of 59/41% enough for you to crow about how much better it must be? We really just have to know how you rationalize this one, or if you're willing to throw the new X1 under the bus and root through the used lots for a half decade old one while decrying "that new fangled junk" or something, lol!

ETA; Since I didn't drive 5 year old BMW's, I had to look up some driving impressions of the E84. Since you picked on "understeer" which you somehow saw in the CX5 video, this quote really stood out, lol!
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Unfortunately, the P Zeros didn't help improve much on that other X1's 0.82-g skidpad lap, mustering just 0.84 g when new and 0.86 g once we'd diminished the tread blocks with use. Despite being one of the last BMWs with hydraulic steering, the X1 doesn't have a particularly talkative helm, and its tendency toward understeer doesn't make that a very fun 0.86 g.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15110242/2013-bmw-x1-xdrive28i-long-term-wrap-up-review/

That whole review is a big fat "nope!" from me. Nothing about the X1 E84 in it sounds good. Barely pulls more on the skidpad vs. my CX5, dispite 40-series UHP summer tires. Gets 24mpg even with a 2.0L. Lost significant power by 40K miles. It looks like a terrible vehicle for what 99% of CUV use is. Comparatively, a CX9 (same engine and transmission as my CX5), actually got FASTER after 40K miles. The BMW got slower, losing 1mph trap speed and 1 second or so to 100, while the CX9 managed to trap 1mph higher and drop 3/4 a second off to 100. I'd be worried about that little 2.0 in the BMW if it's already down about 10-15 horsepower at only 40K miles. Why?
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dareo
A modern CUV is a good all around vehicle. Even more so if you have bad weather, bad roads, lack of roads, or a desire to look like everyone else.

Personally i find the wagon to be the best of the sedan and CUV worlds. My favorite thing about them is they dont sell thousands of them everyday.

Drive what you like. Eventually we will all be forced to buy electric tesla shaped vehicles.

I am not sure how bad roads or weather fits into this. Many cars have AWD (which does not equal immediately better performance). Bad roads? They are all made on car platforms mostly utilizing same suspension parts where it really counts. Unless higher clearance is absolutely necessary, there is no advantage in that aspect compared to cars. Now, Subaru might have a bit more "off roadish" suspension compared to other CUV's, but I would say that is exception to the rule.



Exactly. Also, as I live out in the middle of nowhere, the bad roads thing is a big deal. Further, and many townies won't "get this", but animals do die in the road, and if you have 7+ inches of ground clearance, you can straddle most of them without doing thousands of dollars damage to the front end, or swerving into the oncoming lane. Something a sedan may not allow. I was looking at the popular AMG and similar sedans once upon a time, and was shocked to see some had less than 4" of ground clearance.

Further, when it's icy on the freeway and semi's are shedding large blocks of ice, same story.

There's stuff city folk just don't think about regarding driving windy roads in rural areas that have nothing to do with skidpad ratings or weight distribution that must be taken into account. I learned the hard way when I destroyed the front end of my 370Z on a raccoon once upon a time, lol!
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by edyvw

It is better vehicle, period.
You are posting some videos on dirt track, so I am referring to it. By the way, X1 has system that can transfer 100% of torque to front or rear axle, unlike Mazda, ANY Mazda AWD. Every topic has to be polluted by your admiration of that appliance vehicle that is just bit better than RAV4 or CR-V. Get a grip. You are hoping someone will show up and tell you: yes, you own luxury vehicle.
An no, X1 does not need 6cyl. On mountain roads that N20 would still beat the [censored] out of your CX-5, let alone previous one. On mountain roads, 0-60 does not matter.


On that note, did you see the program that was released where you can change the AWD bias of the BMW system? My coworker showed me for his 435i x-drive and he can switch it from 0/100 to 100/0 to anything in between within 10 seconds. That's pretty friggin nifty.

I have not driven 435i, I did 335i F30 xDrive and did not see that. But I know that new xDrive can be completely disconnected in M vehicles and work only as RWD. Not sure about FWD option. I highly doubt that.
But, BMW AWD is extremely RWD bias. It is not just 40/60% split. It is the fact that it is actual RWD platform. My X5 would throw its rear end in snow like nothing if one wanted, sideway. Actually it could turn around if one is not careful.

Yeah, I'd consider that a horrible trait. I remember one night on the way to work when all the roads were covered in ice, I saw a pickup headed up an overpass when all of a sudden it just SNAPPED around and into the guard rail. I do NOT want a vehicle prone to doing that for my daily. RWD in ice is bad. I pass a lot of RWD vehicles in the ditch when it ices up, including trucks and all manner of things. Also, it's not the fact that it's a RWD platform. My Jeep was a RWD platform, and never had those issues. I drove it on ice, wet roads, etc. Very neutral. It's just how BMW tunes their vehicles so they're more amusing to hoon around in.
 
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Originally Posted by Ws6


Exactly. Also, as I live out in the middle of nowhere, the bad roads thing is a big deal. Further, and many townies won't "get this", but animals do die in the road, and if you have 7+ inches of ground clearance, you can straddle most of them without doing thousands of dollars damage to the front end, or swerving into the oncoming lane. Something a sedan may not allow. I was looking at the popular AMG and similar sedans once upon a time, and was shocked to see some had less than 4" of ground clearance.

Further, when it's icy on the freeway and semi's are shedding large blocks of ice, same story.

There's stuff city folk just don't think about regarding driving windy roads in rural areas that have nothing to do with skidpad ratings or weight distribution that must be taken into account. I learned the hard way when I destroyed the front end of my 370Z on a raccoon once upon a time, lol!


Can confirm. 300 has 5" of ground clearance according to Edmunds. So pretty much anything taller than a standard pop can will hit my car.
 
Heh, that was one of the nice things when my Jetta went away. It had a cast aluminum pan, and "lots" of people found out the hard way that they were brittle. I scared myself when I did the axles and found that I had dragged it at some point, and didn't know about it. There was one winter where that car did not have enough ground clearance for the paved road I lived on--someone did some tree cutting, altering how water flowed, and a section of road got real wavy. My other vehicles had much more clearance and hit way less things as a result.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by edyvw

It is better vehicle, period.
You are posting some videos on dirt track, so I am referring to it. By the way, X1 has system that can transfer 100% of torque to front or rear axle, unlike Mazda, ANY Mazda AWD. Every topic has to be polluted by your admiration of that appliance vehicle that is just bit better than RAV4 or CR-V. Get a grip. You are hoping someone will show up and tell you: yes, you own luxury vehicle.
An no, X1 does not need 6cyl. On mountain roads that N20 would still beat the [censored] out of your CX-5, let alone previous one. On mountain roads, 0-60 does not matter.


On that note, did you see the program that was released where you can change the AWD bias of the BMW system? My coworker showed me for his 435i x-drive and he can switch it from 0/100 to 100/0 to anything in between within 10 seconds. That's pretty friggin nifty.

I have not driven 435i, I did 335i F30 xDrive and did not see that. But I know that new xDrive can be completely disconnected in M vehicles and work only as RWD. Not sure about FWD option. I highly doubt that.
But, BMW AWD is extremely RWD bias. It is not just 40/60% split. It is the fact that it is actual RWD platform. My X5 would throw its rear end in snow like nothing if one wanted, sideway. Actually it could turn around if one is not careful.

Yeah, I'd consider that a horrible trait. I remember one night on the way to work when all the roads were covered in ice, I saw a pickup headed up an overpass when all of a sudden it just SNAPPED around and into the guard rail. I do NOT want a vehicle prone to doing that for my daily. RWD in ice is bad. I pass a lot of RWD vehicles in the ditch when it ices up, including trucks and all manner of things. Also, it's not the fact that it's a RWD platform. My Jeep was a RWD platform, and never had those issues. I drove it on ice, wet roads, etc. Very neutral. It's just how BMW tunes their vehicles so they're more amusing to hoon around in.

You have no idea what you talking about. To say JEEP is more neutral than BMW can claim only ignoramus about vehicles. Stick to that pumped up RAV4, and do not venture anywhere else.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw

You have no idea what you talking about. To say JEEP is more neutral than BMW can claim only ignoramus about vehicles. Stick to that pumped up RAV4, and do not venture anywhere else.


Of course I'm ignorant. I never once drifted my WK1 with HEMI around sweepers in the rain and watched it go exactly where I pointed it with zero drama. Never once. I have no clue what it would ever do in a low traction environment under throttle. Nope!
 
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