Investors....come in please!

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If you like trading stocks for the fun of it, then by all means, go for it, but if you want true risk aversion and a healthy return on investment, try looking into annuities. My Dad is a financial planner, and he seems to think they are the way to go for people that don't want to bear out total market risk, but yet, don't want to keep their money under their mattress (aka a bank savings account/CD). They're basically a contract with an insurance company in which you pay into the contract for a set period of time, the insurance company invests the money for you, the money grows, then after the stated period in the contract, you withdraw from the annuity an equal amount of money every month. The great thing is they give you a low limit on the interest you will gain from it, EVEN if the company loses money on the deal. But if they get a return greater than the low limit, you still get that increase. Granted, you won't be seeing 200% return on investment like you may with an individual stock, but you also won't lose it. And, when your 100% retired, you will get a monthly check in the mail. There are great tax incentives with them as well kind of like a Roth IRA, where you pay your income tax on the money you put into the annuity up front, and then draw from it at the end tax free.

[ January 16, 2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Drew99GT ]
 
What's up with cien up 18% just today
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quote:

Originally posted by Al:


I agree totally-making a buck is good-just keep bumping up the stop loss.
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Sorry I don't have the answers.

This what I was trying to do this morning......I instead ended up selling all my shares at the current price.......gosh, what a dumba$$.
someone needs to come here and kick me in the nuts!!
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quote:

Originally posted by Last_Z:
Originally posted by Al:

This what I was trying to do this morning......I instead ended up selling all my shares at the current price.......gosh, what a dumba$$.
someone needs to come here and kick me in the nuts!!
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I don't like that about ameritrade, you enter the order there should be a preview screen so that you can make sure it's all correct. Half the time I go to put an order in(limit is default) and I"m trying to do a quick market order and it says to enter a price, but it cancells that order and I have to start over. It's really a pain, you have to be really carefull on what you do, heck you could be trying to buy 100 share and accidentially put in 1000 and be really screwed, cause you'll have to come up with those funds!!!

I guess you just need to slow down and be careful!
 
quote:

Originally posted by Al:

Anyone with any rudimentary understanding of finance/markets. or even common sense knows what the rest of the world knows. we can't pay our bills and maintain our present life style without borrowing money. Will that affect the U.S. economy (and the markets)??? duuuuuuuuuuuuuu.


Can't that be said as well with personal finances?? More and more credit card debt, more and more personal bankruptcy's. I truley believe that our economy is built on falsehood, as the average person has around 18,000 in debt.

I'm guilty cuase I have a car loan, plus 2 bike loans, but I'm making more than the interest rate, so it woudn't make sense to pay off right now. Though I have absolutely no credit card debt, I pay mine off every month, My monthly credit card bill is 700-1800 depending on what I'm buying.

I truely think we are in for some rougher times than what we have seen 99-2002. From what I have read the rest of decade is expected to bring about 3% or less on the S&P.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Last_Z:

quote:

Originally posted by Al:


I agree totally-making a buck is good-just keep bumping up the stop loss.
grin.gif


Sorry I don't have the answers.

This what I was trying to do this morning......I instead ended up selling all my shares at the current price.......gosh, what a dumba$$.
someone needs to come here and kick me in the nuts!!
mad.gif
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I told you not to listen to me
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Just remember though-You'll never go broke by taking a profit.
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quote:

Originally posted by msparks:

quote:

Originally posted by Al:

Anyone with any rudimentary understanding of finance/markets. or even common sense knows what the rest of the world knows. we can't pay our bills and maintain our present life style without borrowing money. Will that affect the U.S. economy (and the markets)??? duuuuuuuuuuuuuu.


Can't that be said as well with personal finances?? More and more credit card debt, more and more personal bankruptcy's. I truley believe that our economy is built on falsehood, as the average person has around 18,000 in debt.

I'm guilty cuase I have a car loan, plus 2 bike loans, but I'm making more than the interest rate, so it woudn't make sense to pay off right now. Though I have absolutely no credit card debt, I pay mine off every month, My monthly credit card bill is 700-1800 depending on what I'm buying.

I truely think we are in for some rougher times than what we have seen 99-2002. From what I have read the rest of decade is expected to bring about 3% or less on the S&P.


The same can be said about the stock market/tech boom of the 90s. It was largely based on false accounting data/essentially corrupt expensing methods, especially for the mighty stock option. A lot of those companies in reality had no real profit or even revenue for that matter, but benefitted from issuing stock options and riding the overinflated price wave. Big time analysts and institutional investors/money managers rarely use a balance sheet or an income statement anymore to judge a stocks performance, although they will still very smartly ride the false wave so to speak when stock prices rise well beyond traditional valuation methods, using statistical data and statistics. They take numbers on an income statement with a serious grain of salt.
 
Last Z take it easy! You will end up making a mistake and losing cash! Do not try to time the market unless you know what you are doing. Daytraders are very experienced with the technicals and will grab your cash before you get theirs. You are also paying high commissions and will eat you up! Go to the link that I provided and read, read, read!

Juniper is network like cisco. Junipers earnings were after the bell yesterday and gapped up almost $5. AMD is up almost 10% in 2 days! AMD earnings on Tuesday!
 
Last Z if you set a stop limit at $4.50 it shouldn't have gotten hit until late in the day if at all! The link will have correct stop placement techniques.

You purchased the stock on a gap up. The majority of the time the gap will backfill such as what this stock did.

Try to come up with a plan before you trade in and out. Stay the course and don't let others influence your decisions.
 
Hey guys,
Just wanted to clear up a couple of things:

-I bought my original shares (174) back in May 2003 for $2.17 and $2.12.....so, as I mentioned on my original post, the stock had rose to more that 108% since I bought it.
-I bought an extra 200 shares this morning for a total of 374.
-I'm not trying to time the market. I was simply trying to protect myself. Lucent has a lot of debt and stock prices are going up with "hopes" of a telecom recovery. Lucent could actually go bankrupt any minute (according to Morningstar). The have restructured and fired many people, cutting costs considerably, but their debt is hughe (~10-12bil) and telecom demand just isn't there. I tried to set up a "stop loss", but obviously I f***ed it up and instead sold everything, including my old shares
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All in all, I lost ~$33 buying/selling/buying
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Al, the stop loss is what I was referring to in my previous post and that's what I messed up.

I've been thinking about using another trader company....ShareBuilder, Scott Trade. Any suggestions?

Thanks for all inputs and suggestions.


msparks;
You really think the VoIP will really take off? If so, we are in the right place. All we need is demand.....and lots of it.

Rick

[ January 16, 2004, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Last_Z:
Hey guys....quick update!

Well, I bought another 200 shares of Lucent about 1 hr ago for a total of 376.


Bought 200 shares on monday at $3.96. I wish I could find stocks that would go up over 20% per week!! I'd actually be making money.

with the VOIP, I think this technology will continue to grow for the rest of the year.

I'm also up over 20% with AV which is another VOIP(Voice over Internet Protocol)

As far as Mutual funds, I feel they are a total waste of money as you can do either as well or better trading online. I only hold mutual funds in my IRA, as I don't want to pay capital gains on losers, which really doesn't make sense to me, also why should I also pay capital gains when I haven't sold, with individual stocks and ETF's I get to choose when I want to sell so I can average out my winners and losers for tax purposes.

I also subscribe to Personal Finance(thanks Paul) I have also just signed up to AAII(American Association of Individual Investors, which has local groups that you can join to get with investors.
http://www.aaii.com/


As far as buy and hold, to a degree that will work, but it will also get you a lower return than if you would sell when the stock has slowed in growth, to then pick something else that is getting ready or is growing steadily.

Right now I"m thinking the market is overbought and will take a breather soon, I've since sold both my S&P and QQQ at some handsome profits to put that money into other areas that have since increase over 20%. I'd like to be able to increase my holdings at least 20% year with a minimum of 10% on a down year, but at least beating the S&P by a margin.
 
MS wrote:
quote:

As far as Mutual funds, I feel they are a total waste of money as you can do either as well or better trading online. I only hold mutual funds in my IRA,

I tend to agree as I said above....and as you said, sometime ya ain't gotta choice...like my swelling 401K...at least we (our company) switched from Safeco to Columbia Funds, of course I have no choice (well I could quit!), but researching Columbia....I dunno. When they "auto" reallocated to what THEY thought would be the best matches from SafeCo, mine sure came up conservative (on purpose, I guess). But again, it sux to watch the market move 20% and your funds to move 5%!
 
If you guys like a high paying dividend stock look at Impac Mortgage Holdings, Inc.(IMH)
This one pays .55 per share (11.81%) and the stock is going up. it's @18.60 now. 12 month low was 11.05.
I have 5,000 shares, I love it.
I think it will be 21.00 in a month, my guess!

Good luck Investing
David
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Depends on how you hold your head. Excluding taxes, brokerage fees, inflation, etc...

Earns? Gains?

A$$-sooming it's 1 share at $100.
Value of your stock:
First year $115. Up 15% (of the initial value)
Second year $132.25. Up 15% (of the year beg. val.)
Third year $112.42 Down 15% (from year start)
Year four, to get back to....what? Your high?
What do you mean, break even?
 
Or look at it this way.
start with 1.00
after 15% gain 1.15
after another 15% gain stock is 1.32
after a 15% loss the stock is now 1.12+
to be back to where you where in year 3 you must gain back 20 cent in year 4 or gain about 18%.
 
Let's say that we started with $100,000
100,000 + 15% = $115,000.
But in that year, the wife Spent $200,000.
Year 2, had to remortgage house and sell boat, have enough left over to begin trading with $50,000, earn another 15% end up with $57,500. Wife Spent $250,000.
Year 3, sold right kidney and left nut on ebay for approx $400,000. Begin trading with $207,500 and lose 15%, leaving one with $176,375. Buy prostetic nut for $75,000 (we can do without the kidney and the wife) and we've got $101,375 left. In the final year of trading we can afford to lose 1.4% and still end up even.

I'm a nut, I know!
But I feel good today !!!
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It's over 50% to get back to even. My advisor showed me the calculation. That is why minimizing downside risk can be just as or more important than maximum return in the good years.
 
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