Investing good/bad time

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
677
Location
USA
It seems as the market is on a rise, now may not be the best time to invest. Does anyone here have any real knowledge, or knowledgeable opinions on when, if now, would be a good time to invest? I have talked to a financial advisor and he says it is an "okay time", but says it depends on what we are looking at. Thanks all

Mainly looking at infrastructure and retail mutual funds as investment options for the semi-long term (15+ years)
 
Last edited:
Find a low-cost fund that you like and make regular investments from each paycheck. My Roth IRA is in Vanguard's Total Stock Market Fund VTSAX.

Nobody can tell you what the market is going to do. So, with 15+ years before you need the money, the best thing is to make regular deposits into a low-cost index fund.

Keeping a balanced portfolio is important. I'm at 90% equities, with 15-20 years before I retire.
 
Don't talk to a "guy" or "family friend" to get advice. They'll charge you excess fees to poorly invest your money, but with a nice big smile and friendly composure.

You need to do some reading. The best time to invest is yesterday. That's because of compounding. Invest early and often and you'll ride all the ups and downs, all the while you continue to invest. So you will be buying high, low and in-between and holding for the long term.

Start here https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started if you don't want to spend money/time on books.


and how to you invest in "infrastructure"? That's what the government is supposed to do with our tax dollars. Focus on index mutual funds.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Find a low-cost fund that you like and make regular investments from each paycheck. My Roth IRA is in Vanguard's Total Stock Market Fund VTSAX.

Nobody can tell you what the market is going to do. So, with 15+ years before you need the money, the best thing is to make regular deposits into a low-cost index fund.

Keeping a balanced portfolio is important. I'm at 90% equities, with 15-20 years before I retire.


From the Chart long-term, it looks like VTSAX starts at about 30 every 5 years, goes up and 5 years later is back down there. I predict we are on the way back down... bad time for a small investor ... save the cash and jump in in two years.
 
The best time to invest is yesterday, don't worry about what the market is doing unless your close to retirement. With a long horizon just keep continually investing.

I like the VTSAX
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
From the Chart long-term, it looks like VTSAX starts at about 30 every 5 years, goes up and 5 years later is back down there. I predict we are on the way back down... bad time for a small investor ... save the cash and jump in in two years.

You're looking at the fund price. What you need to view is the performance chart that shows $10,000 invested.

In any case, past performance is not indicative of the future. You cannot predict that the stock market will drop every five or ten years. This goes against everything that a reasonable financial planner will suggest. This is why it's important to make regular deposits, and not bulk purchases when you feel like the market might make gains.

If you want to be a trader, put a small amount of money into a brokerage account and you can play with that. The OP is investing for the future. He's missing out on gains and dividends every day he's not saving. Telling someone not to invest for retirement because the market might drop is not in their best interest.
 
Originally Posted By: lawman1909
Does anyone here have any real knowledge, or knowledgeable opinions on when, if now, would be a good time to invest?


LOL
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Find a low-cost fund that you like and make regular investments from each paycheck. My Roth IRA is in Vanguard's Total Stock Market Fund VTSAX.

Nobody can tell you what the market is going to do. So, with 15+ years before you need the money, the best thing is to make regular deposits into a low-cost index fund.

Keeping a balanced portfolio is important. I'm at 90% equities, with 15-20 years before I retire.


From the Chart long-term, it looks like VTSAX starts at about 30 every 5 years, goes up and 5 years later is back down there. I predict we are on the way back down... bad time for a small investor ... save the cash and jump in in two years.


This is that "guy" I warned you about. Has no qualifications to make any of these statements, yet will give you financial advice.
33.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
In all seriousness, how comfortable will you be if you lose 40% of the value of your portfolio in a month?


A major drop is only a problem if your say 64 and plan to retire next year, but in that case you shouldn't be 100% exposed to stocks either. If your 44 with a 20 year horizon to retirement its a wonderful opportunity.


The last recession was a wonderful buying opportunity for both stocks and RE.
 
Last edited:
Pick a good fund(s) and dollar cost average into it at whatever level for perpetuity. The volatility of today or the last few months shouldn't give you the impression that this constitutes a change in outlook for stocks...therefore deferring investment. There have been many, many studies that show that the ones that are continually investing are almost always the winners versus staying out of the market for x years because of a poor market.

T. Rowe Price had a recent article in their newsletter that showed the results of missing the best days and weeks of the market during particular time periods. The ones staying invested through good and bad did considerably better than those who jumped in and jumped out or only invested in certain periods. I would dare say that this is true for most market environments including whatever happens when Fed policies come home to roust or we go through a deep recession.
 
I'm 53 years old and 100% in stocks / index funds. If you got 20+ years you need to be 100% in stocks whether it's your IRA, 401K or brokerage account. Reinvest all dividends.


Lawman1909,

Approx how much money were you going to invest ?
I agree with others about Vanguard for the long term. How with increased interest rates affect the market ???
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
In all seriousness, how comfortable will you be if you lose 40% of the value of your portfolio in a month?


A major drop is only a problem if your say 64 and plan to retire next year, but in that case you shouldn't be 100% exposed to stocks either. If your 44 with a 20 year horizon to retirement its a wonderful opportunity.


The last recession was a wonderful buying opportunity for both stocks and RE.


Yeah but if things are still high and not corrected enough, a few weeks may me a wonderful opportunity vs. today. That's OPs point as I understand it.

There have been lots of studies on timing the market, and the effects of missing out on the top x% best/worst days. That data has been analyzed to death. Key is having money in play, but I can undrstand the mental sentiment if youre going in for the first time, in having a big drop or putting money in at what looks like a top.

Lets face it, talking heads good and bad look back at past performance and say that things still went up from last time. Im not arguing that, and Im not saying it wont happen again... But there always is the caveat that past performance may not be indicative of future results...
 
SPX-HISTORY-Jan-4-2013.png


Try picking a "top". Tell me when you cannot see what is beyond the right hand side of any point on that chart, how do you know its a "top".
YOU DON'T. No one does.

Unless you are a doomsdayer who's afraid of a total economic collapse (which we have too many of on this board), you invest your money. Do it now, yesterday and tomorrow. Don't pay attention to the daily, weekly, monthly or yearly fluctuations. That's all noise.

Oh yeah, and that chart doesn't even go past Jan 2013. In 2013 the S&P went up over 30%, all the while people were talking of the coming crash.
We're currently at 2,048, which is literally off the chart. So if you thought than the chart showed a definite "top" - guess what? Its gone way up since that "top".
 
Don't listen to me, though, listen to all of these experts:

Quote:

"The stock market will fluctuate, but you can't pinpoint when it will tumble or shoot up. If you have allocated your assets properly and have sufficient emergency money, you shouldn't need to worry." (AAII Guide to Mutual Funds)

"Endless tinkering is unlikely to improve performance, and chasing last period's stellar achiever is a losing strategy." (Frank Armstrong, author and adviser)

"It must be apparent to intelligent investors--if anyone possessed the ability to do so (market time) he would become a billionaire quickly." (David Babson, author, adviser)

"What it really takes to improve your returns and diminish your risks is a willingness to stop focusing exclusively on the movement of the markets." (Baer & Ginsler, The Great Mutual Fund Trap)

"If we haven't said it enough, we'll say it again: Market timing is dangerous." (Barron's Guide to Making Investment Decisions.)

"Only liars manage to always be "out" during bad times and "in' during good times. (Bernard Baruch, famed investor)

"Market timing recommendations have an impressive track record of being harmful to an investor's financial health." (Peter Bernstein, author, researcher)

"There are two kinds of investors, be thay large or small: those who don't know where the market is headed, and those who don't know that they don't know." (Wm Bernstein, author and adviser)

In January 2008, only 2 out of 248 Bogleheads, forecast how low the S&P 500 Index would fall that year (Boglehead Contest)

"If you're determined to succeed at investing, make it your first priority to become a buy-and-hold investor." (Jack Brennan in Straight Talk on Investing)

"When you give up teh hope that some advisor, some system, some source f of inside tips is going to give you a shortcut to wealth, you'll finally begin to gain control over your financial future." (Harry Browne, author)

"For the 12 years ending 1997, while the S&P rose 734% on a total return basis, the average return for 186 tactical asset-allocation mutual funds was a mere 384%." (Buckingham Financial Services)

"We have long felt that the only value of stock forecasters is to make fortune-tellers look good." (Warren Buffet)

"Market timing is an ineffective strategy for mutual fund investors." (CDA/Wiesenberger)

"Any investment method that relies on predicting the future is doomed to fail." (Chandan & Sengupta, financial authors)

"A successful investor has a good knowledge base, a well-defined investment plan, and nerves of steel to stick with it." (Andrew Clarke, financial author)

"Most investors are unable to profitably time the market and are left with equity fund returns lower than inflation." (2003 Dalber Study)

"Take my word on it. Buy-and-hold is still your best long-run strategy." (Jonathan Clements, author & journalist)

"The buy and hold equity investor (S&P 500) would have earned a return of 8.35% for the 20 years ending 12/08, while the market-timer would have earned just 1.87%." (Dalbar research)

"Market-timing is bunk." (Pat Dorsey, M* Director of Fund Analysis."

"The performance of 185 tactical asset allocation mutual funds was compared with buy-and-hold strategies and equity mutual funds over the years 1985-97. Over this period the S&P 500 Index increased 734%, average equity funds increased 598%, and tactical asset allocation funds increased 384%." (David Dreman, author)

"Market timing is a wicked idea. Don't try it-ever." (Charles Ellis, author of The Loser's Game)

"Do nothing. I think all of this market timing is statistically unfounded. I don't trust it. You may avoid a downturn, but you may also miss the rise. Choose the risk tolerance you're OK with and hold tight." (Professor Eugene Fama)

"Forget market timing in any form." (Paul Farrell, (CBS Marketwatch.com)

"The best practice for investors is to design a long-term globally diversified asset allocation based on present and future financial needs. Then follow that plan religiously, through all markets good and bad." (Rick Ferri, author and adviser)

"Benjamin Graham spent much of his career trying to devise a good formula for when to get into--and out of--the stock market. All formulas, he concluded, failed." (Forbes, 12-27-99)

"Buy and hold. Diversify. Put your money in index funds. Pay attention to to the one thing you can control--costs." (Fortune Investor's Guide 2003)

"Dont' sell out of fear or buy out of greed. Just keep making investments, and let the market take its course over the long-term." (Norman Fosback, author, researcher)

"We have two classes of forecasters: those who don't know-and those who don't know they don't know." (John Kenneth Galbraith, Economist)

"I've learned that market timing can ruin you." (Elaine Garzarelli, a once famed market-timer)

"A review of both the empirical evidence and the research work done on the subject suggests that attempts to improve investment performance through market timing will most likely fail." (Roger Gibson, author of Asset Allocation)

"Staying on course may be just as difficult in bull markets as in bear markets." (Good & Hermansen, Index Your Way to Investment Success)

"For most investors the odds favor a buy-and-hold strategy." (Carol Gould, author & financial columnist)

"If I have noticed anything over these 60 years on Wall Street, it is that people do not succeed in forecasting that's going to happen to the stock market." (Benjamin Graham)

"From June 1980 through December 1992, 94.5% of 237 market timing investment newsletters had gone out of business." (Graham/Campbell Study)

"Your very refusal to be active, and your renunciation of any pretended ability to predict the future, can become your most powerful weapon." (Graham & Zweig, The Intelligent Investor)

"The best advice: buy and hold." (John Haslem, author and researcher)

"Even in a bear market, market-timing and actively managed mutual funds generally hurt investment performance more than they help it." (Mark Hulbert, N.Y.Times columnist)

"After receiving the Nobel Prize, Daniel Kahneman, was asked by a CNBC anchorman what investment tips he had for viewers. His answer: "Buy and hold."

"I am not a trader, and don't believe in trying to time the market or outguess the short-term fluctuations." (Lawrence Kudlow, CNBC)

"Timing the market is for losers. Time IN the market will get you to the winner's circle, and you'll sleep better at night." (Michael Leboeuf, author)

"No one is smart enough to time the market's ups and downs." (Arthur Levitt, former SEC chairman)

"Markets will go up and they'll go down over your investing lifetime, but it's time in the market that counts, not market timing." (Mel Lindauer, author and Forbes columnist)

"It never was my thinking that made the big money for me. It always was my sitting." (Jesse Livermore, author & famed investor)

"Nobody can predict interest rates, the future direction of the economy or the stock market." (Peter Lynch)

"Buying-and-holding a broad-based market index fund is still the only game in town." (Burton Malkiel, author of classic Random Walk Down Wall Street)

"At the peak of the bull market in March of 2000 only 0.7% of all recommendations on stocks issued by Wall Street brokerages and investment banks were to "Sell." (Miami Herald, 1-26-03)

"If you can't handle the short term, if the uncertainty is stressful and the headlines are unbearable, then the markets are too hot for you: get out of the kitchen." (Moshe Milevsky, author & researcher)

"Timing is public enemy number one in investing." (Mutual fund manager)

"We're not keen on market-timing. It just doesn't work." (Morningstar Course 106)

"We've yet to find anyone who can accurately and consistently predict the market's short-term moves." (Motley Fools)

"In 1999, 70% of day traders sustained losses that wiped out their accounts." (North American Securities Administrators Association)

"The most active traders earned 7% less annually than buy-and-hold investors." (Odean & Barber study of 66,400 investors)

"Forget trying to time the market and do something productive instead." (Gerald Perritt, financial author)

"The market timer's Hall of Fame is an empty room." (Jane Bryant Quinn)

"Setting a plan to take some risk and sticking to it isn't always comfortable, but I can tell you that it works a lot better than the alternative." -- Pat Regnier, Assistant Managing Editor, Money magazine

"Countless studies have proved that no one is able to time the market effectively." (Mary Roland, author & journalist)

"Trading is based on the rather arrogant belief that the trader knows more than the buyers and sellers with whom he is trading." (Ron Ross, The Unbeatable Market)

"In the long run it doesn't matter much whether your timing is great or lousy. What matters is that you stay invested." (Louis Rukeyser, TV host)

"For the 10 years that ended 12-31-2000, only one newsletter out of the 112 that Timers Digest follows managed to beat the S&P 500 Benchmark." (Jim Schmidt, editor)

"What do I really think is going to happen? -- I have absolutely no idea. (John Schoen, senior producer for msnbc.com)

"I have learned the hard way that market timing and trying to pick a fund that will out-perform the market are both losing strategies." (Bill Schultheis, author and advisor)

"I'm a strong advocate of buying and holding." (Charles Schwab)

"It turns out that I should have just bought them (securities), and thereafter I should have just sat on them like a fat, stupid peasant." (Fred Schwed Jr., Where Are the Customers' Yachts?)

"If you are not going to stick to your chosen investment method through thick and thin, there is almost no chance of your succeeding as an investor. (Chandan Sengupta, financial author)

"Investors should look with a jaundiced eye at any market timing system being peddled by its guru-creator." (W. Scott Simon, financial author)

"Investors desperately want to believe they can time the markets, but the statistics tell an entirely different story." (Liz Ann Sonders, Schwab Chief Investment Strategist)

"Buying and holding a few broad market index funds is perhaps the most important move ordinary investors can make to supercharge their portfolios." (Stein & DeMuth, (authors & advisor)

"It's my belief that it's a waste of time to try to time any market decline, or try to pinpoint a market bottom." (James Stewart, Smart Money columnist)

"Trying to time the market based on your belief that you’re a better judge of the data is a loser’s game, just like the games in Las Vegas—it’s possible to win, but it’s so unlikely that the surest way to win is to not play." Larry Swedroe, author and adviser.

"People should stop chasing performance and just put together a sensible portfolio regardless of the ups and downs of the market." (David Swensen, Yale Investments)

"Trust in time and forget market-timing. Allow time to work its compounding magic for you. Let market-timing inflict its miseries on someone else." (Tweddell & Pierce, financial authors)

"Stay invested. Not only does buy-and-hold investing offer better returns, but it's also less work." (Eric Tyson, author of Mutual Funds for Dummies)"

"Few if any investors manage to be consistently successful in timing markets." (Wall Street Journal Lifetime Guide to Money)

"If you're considering doing your own market timing, the best advice is this: Don't." (John Waggoner, USA Today financial columnist)

"From 1963-1993 stocks returned an annual average of 11.83% for time in the market. Conversely timing the market or trading returned an average of 3.28%." (University of Michigan survey)

"We Believe market-timing and performance-chasing are losing strategies." Vanguard link

"If you buy, and then hold a total-stock-market index fund, it is mathematically certain that you will outperform the vast majority of all other investors in the long run." (Jason Zweig, author and Wall Street Journal columnist)

"I do not know of anybody who has done it (market timing) successfully and consistently. I don't even know anybody who knows anybody who has done it successfully and consistently." (Jack Bogle)
 
I think some BITOG members should post a screenshot of their account(s) and say how they were able to build their nest egg, what strategies they use, mistakes they made (dot.com bubble, chasing dividends, bad advice from investment forums), luck, etc....
 
Also, the conspiracy/panic/Illumanati crowd will post shortly and tell you to spend your money on gold, dehydrated food, bunkers, etc. Feel free to disregard the financial advice of anyone who has no retirement savings of their own, but somehow feels qualifies to manage your money with fear they gained from Info Wars.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom