Interesting Volvo truck document (Dino/Synthetic)

[skyship]

Volvo Trucks North America Service Bulletin 2.2011
Approved Oils, Volvo Engines
Engine Oil Type/Quality
See the engine types for recommended oil change intervals. The intervals do not cover all applications. In on/off highway driving, severe off-highway, continuous stop-and-go city driving and extremely high mileages, the oil change interval needs to be customized for the best protection and economy. Change all oil filters at each oil change. Synthetic oils do not allow further extension of oil drain intervals. It is the contamination rate (i.e., soot and the depletion of additives) rather than base oil quality that determines the useful engine oil life and therefore the oil change intervals.

CAUTION
Extra oil additives must never be added to any oil used.

I am surprised to see Volvo are a lot less than positive about full synthetic oil use in trucks, but have recently insisted on full synthetics for their diesel cars, although oddly enough they still use a conventional gearbox oil in some cars.

 

[JHZR2]

it is totally sensible. TBN and soot loading are by far the greatest determinants, since going substantially out of grade isnt a real concern on an HDEO.

THere has also long been discussion about the benefit of syn in HD trucks. I can think of a Chevron SAE paper from nearly 10 years back stating about the same thing...

Cars can definitely be a different story for many reasons...

 

[bigjl]

Even with full synthetic oil the OCI stays the same in the handbook for my V50.

I have read on bitog that the use synthetic oil is only about increasing OCI, but I always felt it was to provide best possible protection and performance.

I don't use full synth in the V50 to run long OCI, I think the OCI in Europe are long enough as it is.

However the fact that the bulletin is meant for North America how relevant to Europe is it.

Opinions about oil types and length of OCI seem to be much different in Europe and the US.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Even with full synthetic oil the OCI stays the same in the handbook for my V50.


Every one of my owner's manuals have said the same thing. One can use a synthetic oil, but the change interval must remain the same as specified in the book.

 

[tig1]

A friend drives for Schneider truck and they all have Volvos. The oil they provide for them is a Synthetic blend.

 

[Astro14]

Huge difference between cars and over the road trucks in useage...cars are subjected to short trips, cold starts, and a multitude of adverse operating conditions that long-haul diesel trucks rarely see.

 

[skyship]

I was rather surprised because big trucks often have bypass oil filters and then how long the oil lasts must be of more concern.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Even with full synthetic oil the OCI stays the same in the handbook for my V50.

I have read on bitog that the use synthetic oil is only about increasing OCI, but I always felt it was to provide best possible protection and performance.

I don't use full synth in the V50 to run long OCI, I think the OCI in Europe are long enough as it is.

However the fact that the bulletin is meant for North America how relevant to Europe is it.

Opinions about oil types and length of OCI seem to be much different in Europe and the US.


The truckers in the EU use very similar oils although less of them use bypass filters, so I suspect new trucks are in fact doing longer OCI's in the US, although part of that story is because EU oil labs are more expensive at present.
The Volvo V50 OCI at 7.5K miles is real short, even the old V40 1.9D has an OCI of 12K miles and it does not have to be a full synthetic for that figure.
There is a very slight improvement in results from a conventional to a G4 or 5, BUT it's very small for most vehicles. Oil is more about picking the correct viscosity and quality in add pack terms than actual base stock, as you can make a bad HC synthetic.
Unless you are subject to very severe service issues, the synthoil question is more about OCI extension and high temp shear resistance than about actual performance.

 

[bigjl]

Don't know which V50 you have found with a 7.5k miles OCI Skyship.

But my service handbook covers all the European models.

The S40,V40,C30 has 12.5k intervals for the 1.6 and 1.8 petrols and the 1.6d and 2.0d.

The S40,V50,C30 1.8 Flexifuel has the same service schedule but with an additional oil and filter change at 6250miles.

The S40 2.4i, T5 and D5, S60, S80

V50 2.4i, T5 and D5, V70.

The new V70, XC 70, XC90

And the C30 2.4i, T5 and D5.

All have an 18k mile service interval.

These are all 1yr intervals aswell except for the 1.8 Flexifuel which has a 6 monthly oil and filter change.

Never seen a Flexifuel for sale, not sure if it is bio ethanol, LPG or CNG.

I think my service book appears to cover pretty much every Volvo for sale in Europe.

So not sure who told you about this 7.5k service interval.

Mine is an early '08 (April) so there is the possibility they had a shorter service interval in the years prior to mine being built.

Since there have been no signinficant mechanical changes since introduction I think that is unlikely.

I don't know of any vehicle on sale in the last decade or so with a 7.5k interval off the top of my head.

I am certain there may be some, just none that I know of.


As I mentioned here and elsewhere.

Semi synthetic to A1/B1 is specced for normal usage with a 12.5k or 1yr interval.

If you want best protection or operate in severe service then an A5/B5 full synth oil should be used, both are 5w30. But for best protection and economy they advice a 0w30.

 

[heynow]

Originally Posted By: skyship

I am surprised to see Volvo are a lot less than positive about full synthetic oil use in trucks, but have recently insisted on full synthetics for their diesel cars, although oddly enough they still use a conventional gearbox oil in some cars.


I'm pretty sure that Volvo cars has been under separate ownership from Volvo truck for at least a decade or two.

 

[Ken2]

Volvo sold Volvo Cars to Ford in 1999 ($6.5B). Ford sold Volvo Cars to Geely of China in 2010 ($1.5B).

The capacity of cooling in the turbocharger makes a difference on whether conventional oil is OK or whether synthetic is required. Recall the problems VW had with conventional oil cooking in their automotive turbos a few years ago.

 

[bigjl]

I think that may have been a bigger problem in the US.

I don't recall many petrol turbo charged cars that have specified dino/conventional oil in Europe.

Semi synth perhaps, but not dino.

Though oil cooking in a turbo is as much operator error as the oil choice, though you are right widespread use of dino would mke it a very common occurance.

Modern life is all rush, rush and not everybody remembers to give a turbo engine a few seconds of tickover prior to shutdown.

Though as I was a bit of a boy racer back in the eighties and ninties and there was always talk around such things, which is why most if not everybody used full synth oil, even back then when it wasn't the norm.

 

[dnewton3]

Here is what I gleaned from what is otherwise a typical legal-cover-cya document ...

Quote:
In on/off highway driving, severe off-highway, continuous stop-and-go city driving and extremely high mileages, the oil change interval needs to be customized for the best protection and economy.


IOW - any other driving than the basic highway driving must mean something is out of the ordinary. I would disagree; that is like saying everything is excluded simply because they are all not the same. What a bunch of legal-cya mumbo jumbo.

However, that to me is also an inference that "customized" OCIs could include extensions. After all, are they not saying that short/harsh use would compromise the OCI? Then by inference a less harsh OCI would lengthen the OCI? And what is one of the better ways to judge the OCI? A UOA! So if one uses UOAs, then cannot one tailor the OCI to the UOA results, regardless of the OCI duration? In short, if you UOA, then would that not be proof of factual, rationale OCI management "custimization"? If their concern is contamination (and I'm not saying it's not important, to be sure), then utilizing a "custom" OCI plan, with specific attention paid to ALL criteria (wear metals AND contamination of soot, coolant, fuel) would be the "best" practice of "customized" protection, would it not?

I suspect that Volvo would want to negate the OCI extension, but they seem to have trapped themselves otherwise into admitting that "customization" is allowed.

Finally, note the direct specific nod they give to "economy"! Finally an OEM is outwardly recognizing the concept of ROI as important and viable in OCI determinations. I would not agree with Volvo that synthetics cannot be extended. In fact, if you're going to use UOAs and "customize" your OCI, then any fluid should be used to its full extent, regardless of the base stock. In fact, they actually use the words "best" and "needs"; in their statment, they clearly state it as not just a suggestion, but almost an implied requierment in that you must customize your OCI to your situation. And so, you "need" to "customize" your OCI; use the UOAs and find the "best economy" ROI, folks! Gee -- is that not something I've been saying for years. READ MY SIGNATURE LINE!

Re-read their statment and pick up on these 5 words:
Needs
Customized
Best
Protection
Economy

Does that not scream out that UOA decisions must outweigh the odometer?

 

[skyship]

Those figures were for a V50 in the US not EU and the web sites confirmed the shorter interval in the US. They use cheaper oil and sometimes bad fuel, so tend to have shorter OCI's, although most of the differences relate to either oil viscosity or quality. I think the dealers in the US also seem keen to see customers more often.

 

[bigjl]

It does say that using synthetic oils doesn't allow further increase of the OCI

Do you think what it is getting at is don't extend just because you use a better quality oil, but rather continue to perform UOA to see if you are within condemnation limits whilst extending the OCI.

I know that in the UK at least UOA is only common industry and goods vehicles.

 

[bigjl]

Probably best not to quote a post containing OCI information relating to Europe then.

Also my comments relating to use of full synth in severe service without any reduction in the OCI is also relevant to EU based vehicles.

Not sure why you would then begin to comment about Volvos in the US.

Especially since you also go on to compare with your V40 which was never sold in the US in diesel form.

In fact I don't think any Volvo was sold in diesel form in the US, perhaps the XC90 is or was but I would doubt that as the US market seems to prefer petrol powered vehicles mainly.

 

[skyship]

Yep, if you think about the legal meaning of the words from Volvo it does not stop you extending the OCI. I was surprised I found no reference to bypass filtration, as that must have a different OCI stated for an approved installation.
It just means you have to do a UOA to justify an extended OCI, rather than use a second figure based on fully synthetic oil use.
Contrary to popular belief some trucks do get subject to extreme service issue like very dusty air and lots of time at idle, so I think those situations were the main target of the wording, although extended OCI based on the use of a bypass filter and UOA based results will become routine in the long term.
I fully expect the Germans to ban oil changes without a bad UOA result one day, as they are leading the green pack of oil savers at present, but they need some new fast analysis small scale lab gear to be developed, then you could stop at an Iffy lube and get a very simple UOA test (Rough oil grade, fuel or coolant contamination and Fe number?) and they could either change your oil if your results were out of limits or tell you when the oil should be changed next. The alternative for new cars would be the oil reminder light and associated computer chip dictating when you can change your oil. Once they get a new legal OCI system enforced I bet they ban private OCI's just like they ban you from washing your own car on your own land.

 

[Garak]

Sigh. Check here.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I have owned several class 8 trucks and have extended the drains on every one of them above the OEM recommendation. Have never had a single warranty issue. Always used UOA's to justify drain intervals. Never had to open up my last 3 semi engines for a major repair, though I took each to 1 million or more miles. Two of them only got conventional 15w40, and the last one got a synblend 15w40. I usually started out with an OEM recommended interval until the engine got roughly 60,000 miles on it, then started extending drains.

 

[mettech]

B5+ Biodiesel fuel has been a concern for OCI.