Interesting Motor Trend article about EVs

[Cujet]

This calculation appears to be incorrect

I get a much higher mpg using your inputs:

1 US Gallon of diesel contains 40 kWh gross energy

40 kWh x 44% x 95% = 16.7 kWh net generator output

Teslas model 3 use about 30 kWh per 100 miles highway (less in city driving)

Therefore 16.7 / 0.3 = 57 mpg

Still pretty good.

Unfortunately, there are other losses. The power purchased and the power the battery puts out are not the same, not to mention what makes it to the wheels. The EPA very clearly states that 59 to 61% of grid power makes it to the wheels.

We can easily power a vehicle with a 44% efficient diesel engine, or a 41% gasoline engine, almost (lock up converters/manual transmission) or even directly driving the wheels (accord hybrid clutch to axle setup) with variable drivetrain losses. It is hard to believe that it's better to use that same engine to run a generator, through a transformer, into the grid, transformed out of the grid, through a charger, into a battery, out of a battery, through a controller, into a motor and to the wheels? Especially when that battery also powers the heater, requires heating, and self depletes.

 

[paqza]

This article makes some valid points, but it ignores the inefficiencies that result from generating electricity, losses in electric transmission lines, and battery-charging inefficiency. In other words, the energy expended to create the electricity used to charge an EV's batteries is far greater than the energy available from the batteries that power an EV.

Well-to-wheels inefficiency is a thing for ICE, too. There's energy used to extract, refine, and distribute gasoline. Then you need to take into account thermal efficiency that, absolute best case, is still going to be under 50%. Then there are driveline losses which are higher than EVs because a complex transmission is required.

So your point is well made, but the inefficiency is far worse with ICE compared to EVs.

As a thought exercise, imagine line loss in sending high voltage electricity and compare it to literally pumping a tanker full of gasoline and having it drive hundreds of miles to deliver fuel.

 

[Cujet]

Well-to-wheels inefficiency is a thing for ICE, too. There's energy used to extract, refine, and distribute gasoline. Then you need to take into account thermal efficiency that, absolute best case, is still going to be under 50%. Then there are driveline losses which are higher than EVs because a complex transmission is required.

So your point is well made, but the inefficiency is far worse with ICE compared to EVs.

As a thought exercise, imagine line loss in sending high voltage electricity and compare it to literally pumping a tanker full of gasoline and having it drive hundreds of miles to deliver fuel.

The power for EV’s has the same energy requirements as petrochemicals. Remember petrochemicals have an exceedingly high EROI. A 5000 gal tanker, is among the most inefficient ways to move fuel. A 5000 gal tanker gets 6.5mpg. 150 gal gets you 1000 miles. Which you would never do, as trains pipelines and ships are an order of magnitude better.

 

[paqza]

The power for EV’s has the same energy requirements as petrochemicals. Remember petrochemicals have an exceedingly high EROI. A 5000 gal tanker, is among the most inefficient ways to move fuel. A 5000 gal tanker gets 6.5mpg. 150 gal gets you 1000 miles. Which you would never do, as trains pipelines and ships are an order of magnitude better.

Distributing electricity is easier, more efficient, and safer than delivering petroleum products. You can also generate electricity on-site if you're a homeowner with some sunlight. Can't exactly make your own gasoline.

 

[k1xv]

No technology is universally best. If you commute 15 miles a day in congested traffic, you cannot beat the EV.

But if you need a vehicle to take you through a 500 mile weekend to the mountains and back, pulling a trailer with your snowmobiles, in snowy weather, forget any EV.

I cannot understand why people don't accept this.

 

[Exhaustgases]

What is good is bad, and what is bad is good. A very famous quote that some may know. The mineral oil from the earth is much cleaner than all the manufacturing mess for lithium ion batterys, and all the water needed and pollution to manufacture them.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Distributing electricity is easier, more efficient, and safer than delivering petroleum products. You can also generate electricity on-site if you're a homeowner with some sunlight. Can't exactly make your own gasoline.

Unless its a huge ice and snow storm, and or the grid is down for months, just easier to run some generators to pump gas. And no not a battery powered inverter as the generator. Those EM fields may be more detrimental to health than thought, search out the real information on that.

 

[alarmguy]

• South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures.
• The driving range of the U.S. EV manufacturer’s cars plunge in cold weather by up to 50.5% versus how they are advertised online, the KFTC said in a statement on Tuesday.

 

[demarpaint]

• South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures.
• The driving range of the U.S. EV manufacturer’s cars plunge in cold weather by up to 50.5% versus how they are advertised online, the KFTC said in a statement on Tuesday.

 

[alarmguy]

Isnt that something? I posted a story of a couple driving a Tesla from Florida to Kansas in DEC and having this exact issue but I cant find where I posted it in here. They had to keep stopping to recharge every 1.5 hours or something, even called Hertz who they rented from, guy said he was getting calls like theirs. Im trying to remember but I think they eventually gave up and turned the car in for a gas powered one.

 

[Lapham3]

This late summer/fall Calif was having a heat wave and the Gov was asking folks to run their A/C only when the home temps reached 80. Otherwise the grid could fail. This was about a 2-3 week offset from him mentioning the greater use of EVs. I suppose the resultant home temps might then need to reach 90? Maybe the recent heavy rains are the beginning of a new weather turn about and refilling Mead, ect?

 

[PandaBear]

No technology is universally best. If you commute 15 miles a day in congested traffic, you cannot beat the EV.

But if you need a vehicle to take you through a 500 mile weekend to the mountains and back, pulling a trailer with your snowmobiles, in snowy weather, forget any EV.

I cannot understand why people don't accept this.

Depends. Nissan Leaf worn out to 60 mile range for $5k, yes. A brand new Tesla with 250 mile range for 15 miles commute? probably depreciate more range for nothing than the waste compare to a much cheaper gas car (say a Lexus with gas engine).

Unless its a huge ice and snow storm, and or the grid is down for months, just easier to run some generators to pump gas. And no not a battery powered inverter as the generator. Those EM fields may be more detrimental to health than thought, search out the real information on that.

Usually, the power line EM fields cancel each other out when they are next to each other. There are 3 phases of AC travelling together and they cancel each other out when you are away, or 2 phase DC traveling in opposite direction and they cancel each other out. Unless you are in between the 2 or 3 wires, you won't get much EM fields, and they are high voltage low current to avoid loss, so the "field" is low to begin with.

 

[Arc]

What is good is bad, and what is bad is good. A very famous quote that some may know. The mineral oil from the earth is much cleaner than all the manufacturing mess for lithium ion batterys, and all the water needed and pollution to manufacture

Distributing electricity is easier, more efficient, and safer than delivering petroleum products. You can also generate electricity on-site if you're a homeowner with some sunlight. Can't exactly make your own gasoline.

Not every vehicle will be able to have a battery unless something changes. I think we should have let the consumer decide and the government needs to step aside. BTW we have tons and tons of old photocells that are no longer useful. After about 10 years they are shot and unfortunately most end up in a landfill. Lithium car batteries will suffer the same fate regardless of what the industry is saying.