I think to draw conculsions about Mobil 1 producing more iron than other brands you'd have to do multiple UOAs on the same engine for the same amount of miles multiple times.
Interesting Mobil 1 test
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UOA's can always be misleading because the never show causation, just symptoms. Coolant can only come from one place, but iron can come from anywhere.
That said, my shop has done thousands of teardowns over the years and it is always quite apparent when someone has been using synthetic because you could eat off the internal surfaces of the engine.
We recently did some performance tweaks for a buddy of mine on his Mustang 5.0L Fox Body. Part of the tweaks was a new cam and stronger springs, and there was literally no visible "to the eye" wear on the old cam. Previous owner claims to have done 3K-5K changes on Mobil 1.
I bet you would have seen high iron numbers on that engine. Who cares!?! The tear down yielded a clean healthy engine with over 150K of abuse.
UOA's are like going to the doctor for a quick check up. A TEAR DOWN is like going through a true battery of tests. People on this board get so over-hyped on these UOA's without taking many lurking variables into account.
I could write a book on the variables that could affect a UOA's results.
This Mobil 1 iron BULL [censored] is getting old. It has served me and thousands of clients well over the years.
That said, my shop has done thousands of teardowns over the years and it is always quite apparent when someone has been using synthetic because you could eat off the internal surfaces of the engine.
We recently did some performance tweaks for a buddy of mine on his Mustang 5.0L Fox Body. Part of the tweaks was a new cam and stronger springs, and there was literally no visible "to the eye" wear on the old cam. Previous owner claims to have done 3K-5K changes on Mobil 1.
I bet you would have seen high iron numbers on that engine. Who cares!?! The tear down yielded a clean healthy engine with over 150K of abuse.
UOA's are like going to the doctor for a quick check up. A TEAR DOWN is like going through a true battery of tests. People on this board get so over-hyped on these UOA's without taking many lurking variables into account.
I could write a book on the variables that could affect a UOA's results.
This Mobil 1 iron BULL [censored] is getting old. It has served me and thousands of clients well over the years.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If the iron is not added to oil, then it is coming from somewhere. That somewhere is from iron in the engine, or some chemical reaction that produces iron? I'm not a chemist so I don't know of a chemical reaction that produces iron. If it does exist and the added iron that shows up frequently in Mobil 1 UOA's is a chemical reaction then is it a good thing, or a bad thing? If its not a chemical reaction, then it is additional wear, and at some point will be measurable in a tear down. I'm not being confrontational, I'm trying to learn. JMO
I'm a chemist!
Iron is an element. You can't create an element out of something else, short of a nuclear reactor. So it is coming from wear. I think the question is whether M1 is actually causing more wear or if it's just better at suspending iron while other oils let it settle out as sludge somewhere. And I have no idea.
If the iron is not added to oil, then it is coming from somewhere. That somewhere is from iron in the engine, or some chemical reaction that produces iron? I'm not a chemist so I don't know of a chemical reaction that produces iron. If it does exist and the added iron that shows up frequently in Mobil 1 UOA's is a chemical reaction then is it a good thing, or a bad thing? If its not a chemical reaction, then it is additional wear, and at some point will be measurable in a tear down. I'm not being confrontational, I'm trying to learn. JMO
I'm a chemist!
Iron is an element. You can't create an element out of something else, short of a nuclear reactor. So it is coming from wear. I think the question is whether M1 is actually causing more wear or if it's just better at suspending iron while other oils let it settle out as sludge somewhere. And I have no idea.
Wow that's cool! Mobil 1 is taking the Calcium present in it's formula and is combining it with Carbon deposits through Fusion to make Iron!
The energy from the nuclear reaction must be why some people get better fuel economy with synthetics.
The energy from the nuclear reaction must be why some people get better fuel economy with synthetics.
Originally Posted By: Vilan
I'm a chemist!
Iron is an element. You can't create an element out of something else, short of a nuclear reactor. So it is coming from wear. I think the question is whether M1 is actually causing more wear or if it's just better at suspending iron while other oils let it settle out as sludge somewhere. And I have no idea.
M1 can't create Fe out of thin air, but others "could possibly" have figured out a way to mask the level of Fe test results. Happens all the time for illegal drugs in humans, and there is plenty of incentive for companies to do that, even if the additives they put in to mask it could cause more harm than good to the engine.
Now before anyone goes ballistic, I just said "it could" be happening, not that I know that it is.
I'm a chemist!
Iron is an element. You can't create an element out of something else, short of a nuclear reactor. So it is coming from wear. I think the question is whether M1 is actually causing more wear or if it's just better at suspending iron while other oils let it settle out as sludge somewhere. And I have no idea.
M1 can't create Fe out of thin air, but others "could possibly" have figured out a way to mask the level of Fe test results. Happens all the time for illegal drugs in humans, and there is plenty of incentive for companies to do that, even if the additives they put in to mask it could cause more harm than good to the engine.
Now before anyone goes ballistic, I just said "it could" be happening, not that I know that it is.
Mobil 1 is great stuff. I'd use it but I religiously change the oil at 3-5k but it would be too expensive.
1-2ppm? It's usually something like 5x as much or more.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
1-2ppm? It's usually something like 5x as much or more.
That doesn't seem to be a totally true statement. Some UAO's show a larger amount of iron for M1 maybe 2x or 3x but that is iron that slips through the filter so it's pretty small stuff. Maybe the other oils have more wear but the iron is larger and gets caught by the filter. There's more than one possibility.
1-2ppm? It's usually something like 5x as much or more.
That doesn't seem to be a totally true statement. Some UAO's show a larger amount of iron for M1 maybe 2x or 3x but that is iron that slips through the filter so it's pretty small stuff. Maybe the other oils have more wear but the iron is larger and gets caught by the filter. There's more than one possibility.
Hi,
chevrofreak - I have rum many engines up to 150ppm Iron. This is an engine makers limit!
I have "Trended" many heavy high speed diesel engines this way over millions of kms and over many years. This involved some hundreds of UOAs on one engine family! Average OCI was 90kkms and average Iron at this point was 97ppm. Highest recorded was
At teardown-measure up point at 1.2m kms, the hatch marks were still visible on all liners - all shafts were within tolerances
Bearing were all suitable for re-use
As a precaution the ring packs were replaced and the engine bedded in via dyno under heavy load plus some initial road use!
The teardown inspection was done by the engine Manufacturer!
IMO agonising over small ppm levels of Iron is counterproductive
chevrofreak - I have rum many engines up to 150ppm Iron. This is an engine makers limit!
I have "Trended" many heavy high speed diesel engines this way over millions of kms and over many years. This involved some hundreds of UOAs on one engine family! Average OCI was 90kkms and average Iron at this point was 97ppm. Highest recorded was
At teardown-measure up point at 1.2m kms, the hatch marks were still visible on all liners - all shafts were within tolerances
Bearing were all suitable for re-use
As a precaution the ring packs were replaced and the engine bedded in via dyno under heavy load plus some initial road use!
The teardown inspection was done by the engine Manufacturer!
IMO agonising over small ppm levels of Iron is counterproductive
I brushed it off until Ashland found Mobil 1 was not meeting the Seq IVA wear test. This test uses tear down measurements and oil analysis. Fe wear is the element monitored.
In addition, Amsoil's 4-ball wear test shows Mobil 1 5w30 producing a significantly larger scar than all other oils tested. My personal belief is that Mobil 1 gives up a bit of stop/go/low temp/rpm driving type wear for cam lobes, as demonstrated by the Seq IVA test, for better high temperature protection. It's evident by the specifications Mobil 1 meets vs competitors.
If anyone has watched Speed Dreams , you may draw the same conclusion. Mobil 1 has a very successful track record in racing of all types regardless. That says a lot IMO.
This could be completely irrelevant, but I always found it interesting that both Redline and Mobil 1, two oils that seem to show (possibly) higher Fe/Pb wear vs other oils, yet are gold standards in racing. If you refer back to what Roy Howell said, you often trade off to some extent certain properties in an oil. Some oils tend to be more favorable in one area than another etc.
In addition, Amsoil's 4-ball wear test shows Mobil 1 5w30 producing a significantly larger scar than all other oils tested. My personal belief is that Mobil 1 gives up a bit of stop/go/low temp/rpm driving type wear for cam lobes, as demonstrated by the Seq IVA test, for better high temperature protection. It's evident by the specifications Mobil 1 meets vs competitors.
If anyone has watched Speed Dreams , you may draw the same conclusion. Mobil 1 has a very successful track record in racing of all types regardless. That says a lot IMO.
This could be completely irrelevant, but I always found it interesting that both Redline and Mobil 1, two oils that seem to show (possibly) higher Fe/Pb wear vs other oils, yet are gold standards in racing. If you refer back to what Roy Howell said, you often trade off to some extent certain properties in an oil. Some oils tend to be more favorable in one area than another etc.
I think it is possible that there could be something to what some people are saying here in that maybe Mobil 1 just has better solvency or whatever and the Fe gets into suspension and stays in suspension.
Anyway, there have been lots of tests involving Mobil 1 where various types of vehicles ranging from taxi cabs to ordinary cars to SUVs, you name it, have demonstrated little wear even in some better rough conditions. So I think it is safe to say that Mobil 1 is a good motor oil.
The question is are there oils like Pennzoil Platinum and maybe the new Valvoline that may be cheaper and just as good or possibly even better. I can't remember how much that new Valvoline synthetic cost at Wal-Mart but typically the Pennzoil Platinum is at least somewhat cheaper than the Mobil 1. I used to use Mobil 1 in the winter and then a conventional oil the rest of the year but then I started using Pennzoil Platinum in the winter.
Now if I owned a Corvette I would use Mobil 1 all the time. Or if not Mobil 1 than probably Pennzoil Platinum. And if Mobil 1 typically really extends the life of an engine than that has to be factored in also.
Anyway, there have been lots of tests involving Mobil 1 where various types of vehicles ranging from taxi cabs to ordinary cars to SUVs, you name it, have demonstrated little wear even in some better rough conditions. So I think it is safe to say that Mobil 1 is a good motor oil.
The question is are there oils like Pennzoil Platinum and maybe the new Valvoline that may be cheaper and just as good or possibly even better. I can't remember how much that new Valvoline synthetic cost at Wal-Mart but typically the Pennzoil Platinum is at least somewhat cheaper than the Mobil 1. I used to use Mobil 1 in the winter and then a conventional oil the rest of the year but then I started using Pennzoil Platinum in the winter.
Now if I owned a Corvette I would use Mobil 1 all the time. Or if not Mobil 1 than probably Pennzoil Platinum. And if Mobil 1 typically really extends the life of an engine than that has to be factored in also.
Buster,
The 4 ball wear test is useless for engine oil. Mobil explains this on their web site.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Oil_Film_Strength.aspx
The 4 ball wear test is useless for engine oil. Mobil explains this on their web site.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Oil_Film_Strength.aspx
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I can't remember how much that new Valvoline synthetic cost at Wal-Mart but typically the Pennzoil Platinum is at least somewhat cheaper than the Mobil 1.
Currently, Valvoline Synpower 5 quart jugs are $21, Pennzoil Platinum $23 and Mobil 1 in standard flavors is $26.
I can't remember how much that new Valvoline synthetic cost at Wal-Mart but typically the Pennzoil Platinum is at least somewhat cheaper than the Mobil 1.
Currently, Valvoline Synpower 5 quart jugs are $21, Pennzoil Platinum $23 and Mobil 1 in standard flavors is $26.
But there is a $10 rebate available after April 1st...
How's this for a theory! In my Ford engines only M1 has been used and I show very good iron numbers on my UOAs. Maybe the UOAs coming back showing a few PPM higher with M1 are engines that switch from one oil to another then to M1. Since most agree M1 cleans very good, and produce long lasting engines, perhaps this is where the iron comes from.
Just don't understand this high iron thing since I have never seen it in my own UOAs.
Just don't understand this high iron thing since I have never seen it in my own UOAs.
All this high iron from M1 boy i should have lost a cam or a engine by now after tons of years using it..nope not yet.
M1 is now on board any feedback from the site sponsor ?
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