Interesting Mobil 1 test

[buster]

http://www.mobil1.in/why/outstanding.aspx

I assume this is a proprietary test?

Quote:
Mobil 1 Offers Superior Resistance To Deposits Even At High Temperatures

Mobil 1 is more effective at resisting high temperature deposits than some other leading fully synthetic and semi-synthetic oils. Our test simulates high temperature piston deposit formulation which reduces engine efficiency. The test oil is heated to 285°C and directed onto a rapidly spinning (2500rpm) aluminum disc which is heated to 330°C. This test lasted 3 hours. At the end of the test, we assigned the oil a cleanliness rating out of 100.


285C = 545F
330C = 626F

 

[Mystic]

That is really interesting. Mobil 1 sure can take the high temperatures!

There are two things that make me wonder about Mobil 1. One is that is seems like the Mobil 1 oils do not flow at the low temperatures they once did. Maybe that means Mobil 1 is more Group III now-maybe not. I don't know.

And the other thing that makes we wonder about Mobil 1 is why in a lot of used oil analysis there seems to be high iron.

I do think that Mobil 1 is a very good oil. But Pennzoil Platinum is probably somewhere close and usually cheaper.

 

[Mark888]

Another interesting fact from India site, is that Mobil 1 is available in India only in the following viscosities:
Mobil 1 0W-40
Mobil 1 5W-50

 

[daman]

Interesting,,,,,thanks buster.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
That is really interesting. Mobil 1 sure can take the high temperatures!

There are two things that make me wonder about Mobil 1. One is that is seems like the Mobil 1 oils do not flow at the low temperatures they once did. Maybe that means Mobil 1 is more Group III now-maybe not. I don't know.

And the other thing that makes we wonder about Mobil 1 is why in a lot of used oil analysis there seems to be high iron.

I do think that Mobil 1 is a very good oil. But Pennzoil Platinum is probably somewhere close and usually cheaper.




Check this out in regard to M1s cold flow ability. As for high iron the two used oil analysis I have done on my two Fords did not show high iron at all. Isn't high iron considered a problem starting at 150 PPM? Just asking.

http://www.mobil1.co.nz/why/lowtemperature.aspx

Mobil 1 5w30
Mobil 1 10w30

 

[steve20]

Doesn't make much sense to have a clean but worn engine using Mobil 1. I'll take deposits over wear any day


Steve

 

[brian12]

Originally Posted By: steve20
Doesn't make much sense to have a clean but worn engine using Mobil 1. I'll take deposits over wear any day

Steve
I wonder if Mobil is just getting iron out that other oils are not. Could it be that the other oils have just as much iron wear but they are not removing it like Mobil is with its cleaners.

 

[nooil]

Originally Posted By: brian12
Originally Posted By: steve20
Doesn't make much sense to have a clean but worn engine using Mobil 1. I'll take deposits over wear any day

Steve
I wonder if Mobil is just getting iron out that other oils are not. Could it be that the other oils have just as much iron wear but they are not removing it like Mobil is with its cleaners.


Yea, I once had a car that the oil got so much iron out, the engine took a dump at 100000 mi

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: steve20
Doesn't make much sense to have a clean but worn engine using Mobil 1. I'll take deposits over wear any day


Steve



Steve20,
My Ford engines are both clean and long lived. For decads it's been that way. Most all of family uses M1, and where I used to work, a machine shop, most of the guys there used it as well with many high mileage engines. So I don't understand the high wear thing.
Also I have noticed that the two used oil analysis I did came back with very low bearing materal wear numbers as I have noticed with oter Mobil 1 used oil analysis. Just food for thought.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Check this out in regard to M1s cold flow ability. As for high iron the two used oil analysis I have done on my two Fords did not show high iron at all. Isn't high iron considered a problem starting at 150 PPM? Just asking.

http://www.mobil1.co.nz/why/lowtemperature.aspx


The test is about oil pressure, and all else being equal an oil that pegs the pressure gauge quicker on start up is the thicker oil and not flowing as quickly.

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: brian12
I wonder if Mobil is just getting iron out that other oils are not. Could it be that the other oils have just as much iron wear but they are not removing it like Mobil is with its cleaners.

That is a definite possibility. Besides the differences reported are minor, and if there was an engine tear down the differences in measurable engine wear (measuring the engine, not the oil) do not substantiate the claims made by some that their oil will have less wear than M1.

M1 claims on there website that some oils contain additives that reduce friction in special tests that are not applicable to an internal combustion engine, and that such additives are designed to test well, but they produce no measurable difference in actual engine wear and they are corrosive to engine parts.

Here is M1 Ask Mobil Q&A

Question:
Oil Film Strength of Mobil 1 Compared with Royal Purple
Does Mobil 1 have less oil film strength than Royal Purple? I have seen many times the friction test of oils using the machine that test the oil film, test result shows that Royal Purple has more friction protection that Mobil 1 does, seeing these results makes me think that Mobil 1 is lacking some benefits, therefore Royal Purple has the better protection of all.
-- Guillermo Tristani, Miami, OR

Answer:
There are certain oils in the market today that use EP (extreme pressure) additives in their engine oil that are really designed for gear oils and not engine oils. Extreme pressure additives are typically not used in engine oils for a number of reasons but the most important is because they can cause engine corrosion over time. The rigs being used in these demonstrations are primarily designed for industrial applications like gear oils where extreme pressure is an important performance feature you need. These demonstration rigs have very little to do with modern engines and that is the reason that market leading oils in the industry perform poorly in these tests.

 

[demarpaint]

If the iron is not added to oil, then it is coming from somewhere. That somewhere is from iron in the engine, or some chemical reaction that produces iron? I'm not a chemist so I don't know of a chemical reaction that produces iron. If it does exist and the added iron that shows up frequently in Mobil 1 used oil analysis is a chemical reaction then is it a good thing, or a bad thing? If its not a chemical reaction, then it is additional wear, and at some point will be measurable in a tear down. I'm not being confrontational, I'm trying to learn. JMO

 

[chevrofreak]

I bet the iron is coming from camshafts.

 

[tig1]

Mobil claims in their tear down test that there is little or no wear with their oil. In their Las Vegas cab test.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Videos/TV.aspx

Or their 1,000,000 mile BMW test.

http://www.mobil1.co.nz/performance/miles.aspx

 

[buster]

http://www.documentarychannel.com/driveofyourdreams/index.php/speed_dreams/

Jason Whitfield part is interesting.

 

[demarpaint]

This is like the Ford Vs. Chevy debates, and will never end. IMO there are better oils for the same or even less money, I'll use one of them. Seems the iron is always a hot topic, one that a lot of people try and defend. I still believe less is better when it comes to iron in oil, unless someone can explain a chemical reaction that makes a higer iron reading better than a lower one.

What makes this really tough is these tests can be skewed to suit an ad campaign, or new tests created to market something. It does create some interesting reading and debates! JMO

 

[Mystic]

Buster I was not trying to be confrontational and I like you a lot. You are a really good poster here.

I do think Mobil 1 has proven itself to be a good motor oil but the iron levels that show up in some used oil analysis and the higher cold flow rates do make me wonder a lot.

Pretty much today I use synthetic in the winter and conventional oil the rest of the time because in warmer weather I don't think the difference between a synthetic and a conventional oil means all that much and I just like to change the oil more frequently. I just feel better changing the oil more frequently. Hey, I am an old guy.

It is really hard for us to find out which synthetic oil is the best. Mobil 1 may be the best, or maybe Pennzoil Platinum, or maybe the new Valvoline synthetic. Who knows? Maybe the differences are minor. Pennzoil Platinum to me just looks like a better buy as a synthetic. If not as good as Mobil 1 it probably comes close.

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This is like the Ford Vs. Chevy debates, and will never end. IMO there are better oils for the same or even less money, I'll use one of them. Seems the iron is always a hot topic, one that a lot of people try and defend. I still believe less is better when it comes to iron in oil, unless someone can explain a chemical reaction that makes a higer iron reading better than a lower one.

What makes this really tough is these tests can be skewed to suit an ad campaign, or new tests created to market something. It does create some interesting reading and debates! JMO

Some have suggested that an oil with better detergent properties will suspend more Fe than others. It is also possible that some chemicals additives are added to the oil to reduce the amount of Fe, even if the friction and actual engine wear is the same. I can't really say myself if the above has any merit, but if a chemist came up with a way to reduce the Fe in an oil sample, I am sure some oil companies would use it even if it had no bearing on engine wear.

The only way to be sure is to do an engine tear down and measure the actual engine wear.

 

[Bebop367]

I am sure I must not understand what Flash Point is.
Mobil 1 0w-40 shows Flash Point of 230°C.

"test oil is heated to 285°C"


I am not saying the test is not correct. I know it's got to be something I don't understand.

Someone please explain how you can heat it pass 285°C.

From Mobil 1 site:
Typical Properties

Mobil 1 0W-40

Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 230

 

[chevrofreak]

Flash point is the temperature at which the vapors coming off of the oil can be ignited by a flame.