Interesting - dealers turning away from EVs.

GON said:
Maybe this dealer can't exploit potential EV buyers as easily as the can exploit ice buyers?

A buyer with outstanding credit , and self discipline is likely the least desired customer a car dealer wants to sell to.
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Just as easily. You can sell a 10 year old Leaf for $3200 locally and advertise it to someone as "no oil change, no gas station" and they would fall in love with it and buy it, and it keeps depreciating further due to range getting lower. People buy cars with emotion and it is more of a toy and dream than a tool these days (see $75000 pick up truck thread).

Fundamentally it is all about depreciation and how things change in the EV scene way too fast for anything old to worth anything reasonable. Just like computers in the 90s, they were build like a tank compare to today's standard and they would run for 10-20 years without failure, but people just replace them every 2-3 years as software keeps asking for more processing power and storage due to advancement. EV from 10 years ago may still work with 50% of the range and get you somewhere but compare to new ones that are way more useful, they have to depreciate to the right market price.
 
2heeldrive said:
Why are they cranking out all those EV's if the demand isn't there? What happened to keep inventory low and build to order?
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Because politicians have demanded that they do with big fines if they don't. In Europe car manufacturers have to produce a certain percentage of their output as EV's and that percentage is set to increase every year. These targets are based on wishful thinking rather than realistic customer demand. The only thing a manufacturer can do to produce fewer EV's is reduce their overall total output and risk losing market share.

I'm pretty sure it's a very similar scenario in the US with Biden having set the manufacturers targets for EV output.
 
CKN said:
Yet-I know a Nissan Dealer and a Chevrolet Dealer here locally that has a whole section set aside for used and new EVs and several "bays" for plugging them in.
Also-where I bought my truck a year ago next month-the dealer still has a Tesla Model "X" that he took deliver the day I drove my truck off his lot and it's still sitting there-
2017 TESLA MODEL X
Price: $50,499
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Nobody wants to pay $8k per door, plus labor out of warranty. Tesla is notoriously bad about honoring transferable warranties let alot dealing with some part that may or may not be available.
 
CKN said:
Yet-I know a Nissan Dealer and a Chevrolet Dealer here locally that has a whole section set aside for used and new EVs and several "bays" for plugging them in.
Also-where I bought my truck a year ago next month-the dealer still has a Tesla Model "X" that he took deliver the day I drove my truck off his lot and it's still sitting there-
2017 TESLA MODEL X
Price: $50,499
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Now the dealer is giddy into seeing massive traffic on his website regarding that truck; without realizing it's due to BITOG
 
Ws6 said:
I mean, EV's are more expensive up front even though they save money down the road. With interest rates and inflation where it is, though, many people are stressing that up front cost. The luxury car segment also has taken a hit, so we know it's not "EV" motivated, but price tag motivated.
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How do they [EVs]save money down the road?
 
wpod said:
How do they [EVs]save money down the road?
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Well, in the case of my humble Ford C-Max energi PHEV, it costs half as much to run on electricty vs. gasoline. I should save $5000 per 100K miles with this small car. Those savings scale up with larger vehicles. Beyond that there is reduction in maintanance. Brakes go 100K on a Prius; you don't ever change the oil on a pure EV.
 
wpod said:
How do they [EVs]save money down the road?
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Gasoline / diesel, electricity, maintenance, emission cost, etc are all different depends on where you are (within US or internationally). Some places have $5/gal gas and others have 2x that, and electricity can go from 8c to 42c/kwh depending on where you are.

It won't save money for everyone, but it may for others.
 
UncleDave said:
On EV's and cold - its not as cut and dried as it seems at first glance.
There are many scenarios where cold will not (or very minimally) affect range, and many that do.
It's really more about how cold you let the battery get vs outdoor temp.


.27 sounds great, but its not cheap for sure.

I'm getting jabbed for .39 "off peak" and .51 from 4-9.
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Thanks for sharing that. I was wondering what the real world effect of the “duck curve” was. It makes sense that the price of power has to ramp up quickly starting around 4 PM (16:00 hrs) as the natural gas turbines spool up to replace the lack of solar power that starts to decline at around 4 PM. Here is the solar power graph for today in Los Angeles. California has 20 GW of power that disappears by sunset everyday.

2DD39156-515F-4519-9922-EB3CE620CFA7.png
 
The owners of gas turbine " peaking plants" absolutely have to be compensated for their capital investment to sit dormant all day long while solar plants clean up. They then come on at 4 PM run hard past the supper hour and finally taper off during the night. Charging EV cars over night will help their economics, so yes, California EV's will definitely be charged at least in part by burning natural gas at night for many years to come.
 
CKN said:
I would imagine if you the proper solar setup at home they do actually save money.
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They certainly can, and the value you get out of a KWH you use for yourself in this fashion can vastly exceed the value of selling to to the power company.
 
Snagglefoot said:
Thanks for sharing that. I was wondering what the real world effect of the “duck curve” was. It makes sense that the price of power has to ramp up quickly starting around 4 PM (16:00 hrs) as the natural gas turbines spool up to replace the lack of solar power that starts to decline at around 4 PM. Here is the solar power graph for today in Los Angeles. California has 20 GW of power that disappears by sunset everyday.

View attachment 176616
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Thing is regardless of where the power company gets it they sell it all day long, there is plenty of demand in the daytime.

Imagine the luxury of being able to send everyone a bill for power you get from elsewhere, that you don't have to build/ fuel/ maintain any spinning infrastructure to produce.

On top of getting this investment free 20GW you buy it at a discount and sell it at rotational prices.
 
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CKN said:
Whats worse-Natural gas air pollution or gasoline emissions? Serious question I don't know the answer to.
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Gasolines worse, or one could say Nat gas is a little less bad.

You can see it in the oil too.

At 100 hours under similar loads my big 15K gas gen sets oil is blacker than the ace of spades, my 20KW nat gas unit is almost clear.
 
PandaBear said:
I think the same is happening with i3. Had Prius been an unreliable POS this would happen to it as well. Toyota made Prius the most reliable car and that's what kept its resell.
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Toyota made the Prius reliable (past tense)
Gen 3 are garbage and even Gen 4 is starting with multiple low mile head gaskets and other defects.

The i3 has a garbage range extender coupled with BMW priced repairs and service all on a $20000 economy car that supposedly sold for $65,000 but was used as a loss leader for many years beyond its original design life to get EV credits.

The car always lagged in battery, range and fuel economy
 
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