Interested in Subaru

[SwampSurvivor]

About the only thing that is good is they make a few models of station wagon.

I've passed many-a-subarus in the ditch or on their side because people were over confident in their AWD system. My FWD with studded snow tires cost significantly less than the cheapest subaru and handles extremely well. I'm also not given a false sense of security in an overly complicated.

A friend of mine bought an 02 WRX with 140k miles for $7000 because "they're good cars".

Almost a year later and $10,000 into it ... he's still having problems. Even with a rebuilt engine and transmission.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
To be fair, I drove a 2010 Legacy GT. It was still undersprung and that terrible shifter had not improved much. But the steering had gotten better.

It was no Mazdaspeed6. That is for certain. It's probably more reliable than the 'Speed6 was, but the handling and driver control was not there.

The 'Speed6 was a backroad assassin. The Legacy GT is an AWD turbo Camry.


Agreed the 2010+ Legacy GT is simply a turbo Legacy with its regular suspension sadly no upgrades. Good ridance its gone for next model year.

The 2005-2009 Legacy GT esp SpecB form was extremely competitive with MazdaSpeed6. Interestingly article back to back of the two:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0602_midsize_awd_sedan_comparison/viewall.html

We choose GT for comfort and wagon format and appealing price tag ($24k delivered).

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
To be fair, I drove a 2010 Legacy GT. It was still undersprung and that terrible shifter had not improved much. But the steering had gotten better.



I test drove a 2009 Imprezza and was happy with the shifting quality. It was miles ahead of the Corolla and Kia Spectras I drove. Both of those cars had the worst shifters I've ever felt. They were really punishing people who wanted a manual.


Originally Posted By: Spazdog

AWD or not, my Mazda6S would kill this thing on a road course.


How often do you drive your daily driver on a road course? Except for a tiny number of enthusiasts -which may or may not include you- no one drives their car on a road course.

It all depends what you want in a car. I really like Subarus, but in Kansas there isn't enough winter to justify an AWD vehicle. AWD here is just a mileage penalty, IMO. But, I grew up in Iowa. AWD would be 100% justified there.

I wish Subaru still offered some 2wd models (I'm excluding the BRZ, of course).

 

[Norm Olt]

Since the Subaru is designed with AWD it is kinda' hard to put a finger on the severity of the "penalty" you refer to...

Personally I think 36 mpg in the new Impreza is pretty good for an AWD vehicle: highest in North America for AWD, I believe. Also lowest price.

I realize Kansas is pretty flat to begin with,but AWD has value as well when it rains, for example.

It does rain in Kansas, doesn't it?

Cheers!

p.s. Find an early Subaru with FWD, if you can. They are getting pretty scarce and really do pretty well in bad conditions.

p.p.s. The SVX has been one of the best cars we ever had and is probably the last "BRAND NEW!" vehicle we'll ever buy.

 

[2008wrx]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
About the only thing that is good is they make a few models of station wagon.

I've passed many-a-subarus in the ditch or on their side because people were over confident in their AWD system. My FWD with studded snow tires cost significantly less than the cheapest subaru and handles extremely well. I'm also not given a false sense of security in an overly complicated.

A friend of mine bought an 02 WRX with 140k miles for $7000 because "they're good cars".

Almost a year later and $10,000 into it ... he's still having problems. Even with a rebuilt engine and transmission.


Spent 10,000 on a 7,000 used car? What have been repalced and still wrong, sounds interesting?

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: Miller88


Almost a year later and $10,000 into it ... he's still having problems. Even with a rebuilt engine and transmission.


Sounds like your friend does not know when to quit.

WRX's are risky buys. Well built cars but abuse that happens and modifications ruins them.

Subaru is actually a really simply vehicle. There is not much to the AWD esp manual transmission versions. The manual transmission versions work with pure mechanical bliss and very effectively. Even the automatics with an electronic clutch pack is pretty simply too.

They are not the modern AWD in everything else that is essentially overgrown traction control relying on computers, speeds sensors and brake application to work.

 

[SteveSRT8]

one bad car story does not make all Subies lemons.

They enjoy a great owner loyalty, almost cult like. And they excel in the snow.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: rjundi

They are not the modern AWD in everything else that is essentially overgrown traction control relying on computers, speeds sensors and brake application to work.


[Unfortunately] the current WRXs have open diffs front and rear and do rely on the brakes to control right-to-left slippage, similar to VW's "electronic limited slip diff". Center diff is viscous limited slip though. I assume this is the same as all other MT models other than the STi.

Doesn't change what you said since the system is still purely mechanical as far as drive goes.

 

[dparm]

The Audis are purely mechanical as well, except with the Sports Diff on the S-cars.

 

[rjundi]

I know Subaru introduced a CVT (its okay in loaner) and I wonder what kind of AWD they are using in that vehicle to achieve those MPG numbers. Is it similar to full-time like automatics/manual transmissions?

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
Since the Subaru is designed with AWD it is kinda' hard to put a finger on the severity of the "penalty" you refer to...

Personally I think 36 mpg in the new Impreza is pretty good for an AWD vehicle: highest in North America for AWD, I believe. Also lowest price.

I realize Kansas is pretty flat to begin with,but AWD has value as well when it rains, for example.

It does rain in Kansas, doesn't it?

Cheers!

p.s. Find an early Subaru with FWD, if you can. They are getting pretty scarce and really do pretty well in bad conditions.

p.p.s. The SVX has been one of the best cars we ever had and is probably the last "BRAND NEW!" vehicle we'll ever buy.


Have you had any problems with the A/T in your SVX?
From what I understand they used the same transmission as an Escort which was sub-par in that meager application.

I have recently become interested in the new Impreza but I notice that the dealers won't 'deal' at all....

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: pbm

Have you had any problems with the A/T in your SVX?
From what I understand they used the same transmission as an Escort which was sub-par in that meager application.


The main issue with SVX was Subaru did not have anything prior nor experience with something as powerful or heavy. So wheel bearings, automatic transmissions are known weak spots of the vehicle. Really nice cars though otherwise. I always wanted one but never bit.

The transmission is Subaru only(more info than you would want to know):

http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/transmission/4eat.pdf

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: dparm
The Audis are purely mechanical as well, except with the Sports Diff on the S-cars.


The Quattro Torque Vectoring is electro-mechanical like it's predecessor, Honda's SH-AWD.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
I know Subaru introduced a CVT (its okay in loaner) and I wonder what kind of AWD they are using in that vehicle to achieve those MPG numbers. Is it similar to full-time like automatics/manual transmissions?


It's the same symmetrical AWD system used in all Subarus these days. 50/50 split for normal, with power being sent to the wheels with traction during slip.

They've really got the system down. I've noticed during tire rotations on mine, you can spin a rear wheel almost as easily as a conventional FWD vehicle. Little resistance.

Joel

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
.

The transmission is Subaru only(more info than you would want to know):

http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/transmission/4eat.pdf


As far as I've seen, the 4EAT is/was a Jatco trans, built specifically for Subaru's north/south AWD layout.

Joel

 

[Norm Olt]

Actually it was also used in a couple Nissan applications (Pathfinder, as I recall)... F-4EAT was a bit different transmission.

The specific problem with the early (I have one, a '92) SVX had more to do with a blockage in the transmission cooler plumbing from deteriorating clutch material. There were quite a few engineering upgrades and, by the time we needed a replacement (under factory warranty @ 56K miles) the problems had pretty well been sorted out.

4EAT has been used (think 5(-speed)EAT as well) in a lot of cars for a long time.

Cheers!

p.s. Now the durn rear wheel bearings are another matter, completely!

 

[doitmyself]

Has anyone addressed the so called tire replacement issues, if there is one?

I read on the almighty internet that if you damaged one tire at about 20,000 +/- miles wear (or whatever), you cannot replace just one or two, but have to do all four to keep diameters the same.

Is there any truth to this?

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Has anyone addressed the so called tire replacement issues, if there is one?

I read on the almighty internet that if you damaged one tire at about 20,000 +/- miles wear (or whatever), you cannot replace just one or two, but have to do all four to keep diameters the same.

Is there any truth to this?


I don't think they addressed it. The worst part is that dealership and shops just love to sell you more tires so when you have slightly more worn front tires, they'll suggest you replace all 4. This is why I don't like AWD that much.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Has anyone addressed the so called tire replacement issues, if there is one?

I read on the almighty internet that if you damaged one tire at about 20,000 +/- miles wear (or whatever), you cannot replace just one or two, but have to do all four to keep diameters the same.

Is there any truth to this?


Some shops can shave down the new tire to match the others.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Miller88


Almost a year later and $10,000 into it ... he's still having problems. Even with a rebuilt engine and transmission.


Sounds like your friend does not know when to quit.

WRX's are risky buys. Well built cars but abuse that happens and modifications ruins them.

Subaru is actually a really simply vehicle. There is not much to the AWD esp manual transmission versions. The manual transmission versions work with pure mechanical bliss and very effectively. Even the automatics with an electronic clutch pack is pretty simply too.

They are not the modern AWD in everything else that is essentially overgrown traction control relying on computers, speeds sensors and brake application to work.


He's not the only one to have problems with a higher mileage subaru. I know of a few people that have had the car pretty much fall apart at 100,000 miles. I expect my $12000 Focus to fall apart, I wouldn't expect a $30,000 Subaru to fall apart at 100,000 miles.