Intake cleaning - what do you suggest I do next?

[rjacket]

Last weekend I applied the 3M complete fuel system cleaning kit to my car.

Due to an issue with the product, the intake cleaner did not work fully. It backed up into the air box and I had to replace the air filter and do a lot of cleaning up. It's very hard to tell how much of it was actually applied but I think it's fair to say it needs to be done again.

3M accepted that there was a product issue and directed me to send it back to the retailer for a replacement. I contacted Amazon and though I was happy to get a replacement, they issued me with a refund and don't want me to ship the empty product back (which makes sense as it's categorized as hazardous).

Since purchasing the kit, I came to realize that throttle cleaner is cheap and that the 3M fuel system cleaner that you put into the tank has very little PEA in it. Thus the value of the kit is the intake cleaner. I've cleaned the throttle body and applied the in take cleaner. With the low amount of PEA though, I'm minded to put something else in after doing an intake clean.

So what should I do with my ~$35 credit?

Option 1: Buy another 3M Kit for ~$35 effectively just for the intake cleaning system. Is it that good?
Option 2: Get Walmart to do a fuel system clean for $20 (kind of desirable because I didn't like being around those chemicals, they are seriously not). I understand they pull Regane through a vacuum hose and then put Regane in the tank also.
Option 3: Now that I'm familiar with the process, use a different product to do the intake cleaning, potentially spraying it through the throttle body or through a vacuum hose as I have a MAF sensor so I believe it would have to be the latter.

Thoughts?

 

[91344George]

Not correct about the 3M in tank cleaner. The last MSDS said it had 60% PEA content in it.

It sounds like a defect in the spray nozzle for the intake but occasionally you will get issues like this. Just redo with the new kit and you are good to go.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Not correct about the 3M in tank cleaner. The last MSDS said it had 60% PEA content in it.

It sounds like a defect in the spray nozzle for the intake but occasionally you will get issues like this. Just redo with the new kit and you are good to go.


I believe the max strength one has 60% but looks like the regular one is on up to 5%.

The question is: is it really worth spending $35 on the intake spray, or should I either go to Walmart or do it myself with some other product?

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: rjacket
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Not correct about the 3M in tank cleaner. The last MSDS said it had 60% PEA content in it.

It sounds like a defect in the spray nozzle for the intake but occasionally you will get issues like this. Just redo with the new kit and you are good to go.


I believe the max strength one has 60% but looks like the regular one is on up to 5%.

The question is: is it really worth spending $35 on the intake spray, or should I either go to Walmart or do it myself with some other product?


The benefit of the 3M kit is the fine spray design and it is designed to do an effective job of evenly cleaning the intake and intake valves, if you try and manually do it with a spray it will be messy, you will probably cause puddling of chemical inside the intake and the engine isn't running to help clean itself.

I was certain that the 3M kit contained the intake cleaner and a bottle of 60% PEA in tank cleaner? Maybe that changed .

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: rjacket
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Not correct about the 3M in tank cleaner. The last MSDS said it had 60% PEA content in it.

It sounds like a defect in the spray nozzle for the intake but occasionally you will get issues like this. Just redo with the new kit and you are good to go.


I believe the max strength one has 60% but looks like the regular one is on up to 5%.

The question is: is it really worth spending $35 on the intake spray, or should I either go to Walmart or do it myself with some other product?


The benefit of the 3M kit is the fine spray design and it is designed to do an effective job of evenly cleaning the intake and intake valves, if you try and manually do it with a spray it will be messy, you will probably cause puddling of chemical inside the intake and the engine isn't running to help clean itself.

I was certain that the 3M kit contained the intake cleaner and a bottle of 60% PEA in tank cleaner? Maybe that changed .


From what I saw, it isn't a fine spray. It's a slow release tube and the air intake helps atomize it due to the small quantity being released and the suction being generated. In my opinion it is this that causes the spray, not the actual release mechanism.

The 3M certainly has to it's advantage a slow release rate, something you might not control correctly with a spray.

The other option then is to go to Walmart and have them drip feed the solution, presumably through a vacuum hose.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: rjacket
[

From what I saw, it isn't a fine spray. It's a slow release tube .


That was because like you said earlier, your product was defective. It should come out as a fine mist.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: rjacket
[

From what I saw, it isn't a fine spray. It's a slow release tube .


That was because like you said earlier, your product was defective. It should come out as a fine mist.


Have you seen it in operation?

 

[Artem]

I've never been a fan of any type of intake cleaners. My intake manifold and throttle body is clean @ 125k on my 07 Civic. I plan to remove the whole intake manifold and clean it with an intake / carb spray.

New cars don't produce a lot of blow by, so the intake tract remains pretty clean.

My 98 Toyota Camry gets the same cleanup procedure. Everytime the intake manifold is removed to change the spark plugs (once every 100k) it gets degreased and is spotless.

I personally don't want all that junk burning up inside the combustion chamber, clogging up the CAT, the piston rings and piston top, contaminating the oil, etc, etc.

 

[chad8]

without knowing the car, engine, and mileage , its hard to advise. i have had excellent results with cleaners in the tank . I have used seafoam, mmo and b-g through vacuum lines and never thought that it did any better than in fuel. Someone else was right .Modern intakes with decent pcv valves and air filters do not get very dirty. I do like to spray throttle body cleaner once a year or so. That does help with cold idle issues.
Use the money for something else. Buy a big jug of Lucas ucl and put it in your gas. I like the extra mpg I get using it plus it lubes fuel pumps.
Pea cleaners are the current fad on bitog and imo they are not needed except for real dirty engine conditions. Most top tier gasoline has enough cleaner in it.

 

[91344George]

I actually did this process a 3-4 years ago...and it had what appeared to be an atomizer on the end of the plastic hose that comes with the kit as well as a plastic clip that attached to the metalopening of the TB... but of course this could have changed, my version definitely sprayed a medium to fine mist when activated.

Fact is that high concentration of PEA is the only effective way of actually removing carbon deposits on intake items and FIs.

Probably the most notable aspect of PEA vs other gas detergents is that it is the ONLY product that doesn't leave its own residue behind as it cleans which means you get a really clean carbon free surface that doesn't attract MORE residue from carbon and or other detergents.

As for "lubing" fuel pumps, actually the modern pump motors are sealed units so no lubing is going to affect them. Only the fuel flow is needed to keep them cool and from overheating.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
I actually did this process a 3-4 years ago...and it had what appeared to be an atomizer on the end of the plastic hose that comes with the kit as well as a plastic clip that attached to the metalopening of the TB... but of course this could have changed, my version definitely sprayed a medium to fine mist when activated.

Fact is that high concentration of PEA is the only effective way of actually removing carbon deposits on intake items and FIs.

Probably the most notable aspect of PEA vs other gas detergents is that it is the ONLY product that doesn't leave its own residue behind as it cleans which means you get a really clean carbon free surface that doesn't attract MORE residue from carbon and or other detergents.

As for "lubing" fuel pumps, actually the modern pump motors are sealed units so no lubing is going to affect them. Only the fuel flow is needed to keep them cool and from overheating.


The 3M intake cleaner does not have any PEA in it.

It's probably why you use the throttle plate cleaner and the in tank cleaner afterwards, both of which contain PEA. Just checked the two versions of the MSDS on 3M's website that I can find and they say.

Step 1: Intake cleaner - no PEA as per both MSDS's
Step 2: Throttle cleaner - 1% - 5% Polyether Amin as per both MSDS's
Step 3: Fuel System cleaner - either POLYETHER AMINE 7% - 13% or POLYOLEFIN AMINE 1% - 5%

Re step 3, it's most likely the 7% - 13% as that is a 2011 MSDS while the other is 2008.

 

[91344George]

Any tank cleaner with that LOW a concentration of PEA is virtually worthless. It has to be around 35+% to be a serious cleaning agent with 50%+ being optimal.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: chad8
without knowing the car, engine, and mileage , its hard to advise. i have had excellent results with cleaners in the tank . I have used seafoam, mmo and b-g through vacuum lines and never thought that it did any better than in fuel. Someone else was right .Modern intakes with decent pcv valves and air filters do not get very dirty. I do like to spray throttle body cleaner once a year or so. That does help with cold idle issues.
Use the money for something else. Buy a big jug of Lucas ucl and put it in your gas. I like the extra mpg I get using it plus it lubes fuel pumps.
Pea cleaners are the current fad on bitog and imo they are not needed except for real dirty engine conditions. Most top tier gasoline has enough cleaner in it.


Car is 8 years old Ford Taurus 66k. Purchased at 25k, haven't until recently used top tier fuel, has seen a lot of short trips.

Cleaning the throttle body had quite a big effect. It was quite dirty around the plate and beyond. I could only get so far in though.

My conclusion is that the 3M in tank cleaner is not strong enough nor cost effective to have an impact compared to the Techron, Redline, Gumout concentration levels.

Therefore should I spend $35 to really just get the 3M intake cleaner or can I effectively clean the system from the intake in some other way.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Any tank cleaner with that LOW a concentration of PEA is virtually worthless. It has to be around 35+% to be a serious cleaning agent with 50%+ being optimal.


So either the other ingredients are doing something else or 3M think the intake cleaner which has apparently no PEA will do most of the work.

 

[91344George]

Your cleaning the of the TB butterfly will result in better idling and smoother acceleration ..as it is a computer controlled device and if the inlet bypass for idle is partially blocked it can affect how the ECU maps work for acceleration as well.

Also might want to check the PCV valve and tubing and EGR too.

 

[JOD]

I've used this stuff twice, once as preventative maintenance @ 60K, then again around 110K after I shot a spark plug out of the cylinder head. I drove the car for a couple of miles and I could already see some carbon build-up though the spark plug hole on the on the offending cylinder.

First, the stuff should actually spray out (slowly) after you press the start button. The pull from the intake does atomize the spray, but it shouldn't increase the rate (unless you got a defective can like you did). Secondly, the stuff definitely works to clean intake valves. I pulled the intake manifold to do the plugs, and they looked new after running this stuff through the system. I certainly wouldn't worry about it "gumming up" the pistons, valves or catalytic converter--just the opposite. It's going to clean everything in it's path.

I do generally change the oil after doing this and the fuel system cleaner--I don't know if it's necessary or not, but I were planning this as preventative maintenance I'd do it right before an OCI.

I can't make any claims about it making my car run "better", or making me smarter or creating world peace, but it does seem to clean things based on my observations. Things certainly looked a lot better though the spark plug hole after I ran this stuff through the combustion chamber. Give your car's history, I think it may be a good idea to give it another shot.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: JOD
I've used this stuff twice, once as preventative maintenance @ 60K, then again around 110K after I shot a spark plug out of the cylinder head. I drove the car for a couple of miles and I could already see some carbon build-up though the spark plug hole on the on the offending cylinder.

First, the stuff should actually spray out (slowly) after you press the start button. The pull from the intake does atomize the spray, but it shouldn't increase the rate (unless you got a defective can like you did). Secondly, the stuff definitely works to clean intake valves. I pulled the intake manifold to do the plugs, and they looked new after running this stuff through the system. I certainly wouldn't worry about it "gumming up" the pistons, valves or catalytic converter--just the opposite. It's going to clean everything in it's path.

I do generally change the oil after doing this and the fuel system cleaner--I don't know if it's necessary or not, but I were planning this as preventative maintenance I'd do it right before an OCI.

I can't make any claims about it making my car run "better", or making me smarter or creating world peace, but it does seem to clean things based on my observations. Things certainly looked a lot better though the spark plug hole after I ran this stuff through the combustion chamber. Give your car's history, I think it may be a good idea to give it another shot.


Thanks

Do you think it is any different from getting the service at Walmart?

 

[JOD]

I'm not sure what the do at Walmart, but I imagine that most intake cleaners that run through the throttle body will work in a similar fashion. The obvious advantage to this stuff is that it's easy to DIY. Of course, that's only the case if the spray can actually works...

They also sell a commercial version that uses a tool which hooks into an air compressor, which I imagine is used in a bunch of shops. This product is just the DIY version.

I do like the fact that it goes in front of the TB versus the fuel rail, since it gets the intake manifold. You'd probably want to ask the guys at Walmart where they inject the cleaner.

 

[UNC036]

Amsoil Power Foam intake cleaner...

 

[Turk]

I'd buy Redline SI-1 with the Amazon credit.