Toyota went from 5000 miles on conventional to 10,000 on synthetic, thus I'm doing the same thing on all my toyota cars.
Inexpensive + regular oci vs expensive + long oci?
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Originally Posted By: lexus114
On the other hand, it`s nice to get under there every 5k and see what is going on.
You can always do it without changing the oil.
On the other hand, it`s nice to get under there every 5k and see what is going on.
You can always do it without changing the oil.
What do you consider to be expensive oil?
There have been a number of FAR deals on shelf synthetics over the past couple of years, making them pretty cheap or free after MIR.
Not all syns are created equal, and some will not support long drains based upon what we can observe in the used oil analysis forum.
There are other limiting factors as well.
For example, my e36 showed very low wear and more than 50% of original TBN on a 4K drain in a used oil analysis of Maxlife Nextgen 10W-40.
Should be good to go another few K, right?
It also showed 2.9% fuel dilution, and reading between the lines of other used oil analysis of oil from this engine (there aren't many), this thing may simply have a rich fuel map, and is therefore not really suited to long drains with any oil, so I've continued with 4K drains.
Another example would be someone who habitually drives short distances on a start. Such use would not allow for long drains using any oil.
I know that I'm not answering your question, but I'm trying to give you a little food for thought.
Also, I'm not one to take oil life on faith.
Unless a given oil is supported with a used oil analysis or two from your engine as you use it, I wouldn't take the oil much more than 7-8K based upon oil marketer's claims, although some here do.
Finally, I've always said that if I ended up with a much longer commute to either keep my job or get a worthwhile upgrade, I'd probably be all over long drain intervals, with an oil like SSO being a prime choice, although Mobil 1 Extended Performance and Ultra would also be worth considering.
There have been a number of FAR deals on shelf synthetics over the past couple of years, making them pretty cheap or free after MIR.
Not all syns are created equal, and some will not support long drains based upon what we can observe in the used oil analysis forum.
There are other limiting factors as well.
For example, my e36 showed very low wear and more than 50% of original TBN on a 4K drain in a used oil analysis of Maxlife Nextgen 10W-40.
Should be good to go another few K, right?
It also showed 2.9% fuel dilution, and reading between the lines of other used oil analysis of oil from this engine (there aren't many), this thing may simply have a rich fuel map, and is therefore not really suited to long drains with any oil, so I've continued with 4K drains.
Another example would be someone who habitually drives short distances on a start. Such use would not allow for long drains using any oil.
I know that I'm not answering your question, but I'm trying to give you a little food for thought.
Also, I'm not one to take oil life on faith.
Unless a given oil is supported with a used oil analysis or two from your engine as you use it, I wouldn't take the oil much more than 7-8K based upon oil marketer's claims, although some here do.
Finally, I've always said that if I ended up with a much longer commute to either keep my job or get a worthwhile upgrade, I'd probably be all over long drain intervals, with an oil like SSO being a prime choice, although Mobil 1 Extended Performance and Ultra would also be worth considering.
If we only consider costs,full synths win with their longer OCIs.
But compared to gasoline costs, it is hardly felt.
I prefer dino and shorter OCIs, for better flushing and additive replenishment.
But compared to gasoline costs, it is hardly felt.
I prefer dino and shorter OCIs, for better flushing and additive replenishment.
The problem with original post is that there are a few assumptions that I disagree with:
1) Synthetic no longer 2x the price of dino. It's a much narrower margin unless you are set to spend 2x for boutique oil just for the sake of doing so.
2) As mentioned above, price difference is minuscule compared to total cost of car ownership, especially fuel, as long as you use a reasonable recommended OCI (5k+).
If, during the middle or end of life of the Oil's it is 1% more efficient it will make up a portion of the cost increase quickly.
3) Labor to perform the OilChange has a cost (or hassle-cost if it's DIY).
When you get down to the absolute cost, if the price of a Thing jumps from 1cent to 2cents, sure that's a 100% increase, but really it's still just 1cent and starting to be inconsequential.
1) Synthetic no longer 2x the price of dino. It's a much narrower margin unless you are set to spend 2x for boutique oil just for the sake of doing so.
2) As mentioned above, price difference is minuscule compared to total cost of car ownership, especially fuel, as long as you use a reasonable recommended OCI (5k+).
If, during the middle or end of life of the Oil's it is 1% more efficient it will make up a portion of the cost increase quickly.
3) Labor to perform the OilChange has a cost (or hassle-cost if it's DIY).
When you get down to the absolute cost, if the price of a Thing jumps from 1cent to 2cents, sure that's a 100% increase, but really it's still just 1cent and starting to be inconsequential.
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Pyb for 7k is all you need
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I probably should have mentioned that I'm in Australia and oil prices are a bit different here. In particular, 0wXX and 5wXX full synthetics are still pretty expensive.
I can get a reasonably stout 10w40 / 15W40 oil (eg shell helix hx7, castrol GTX) for about $6 to $7 per liter. However I've lately been using 5w30 as my preferred grade, and there's nothing really below $9 to $10 per liter here (it's just the way the pricing is in Australia).
We don't have Pennzoil here, but top notch synthetics like Castrol Edge and Shell Helix Ultra (which is same/similar as PU) are about $15 to $17 per liter, and Mobil-One is about $18 to $19 per liter.
So that's why I've been sticking with more basic options, which are still about $9/L, and that’s actually about as "cheap" as it (5w30) gets here. This would typically be something like Valvoline Durablend, which is still a fairly decent oil (GF5, Dexos1). Currently I'm running this to about 6000 or 7000 miles, so as you can see, to justify the extra cost of the $15 to $19 per liter synthetics I'd want to extend the drain interval.
BTW. I'm doing 10k miles every 6 months.
I can get a reasonably stout 10w40 / 15W40 oil (eg shell helix hx7, castrol GTX) for about $6 to $7 per liter. However I've lately been using 5w30 as my preferred grade, and there's nothing really below $9 to $10 per liter here (it's just the way the pricing is in Australia).
We don't have Pennzoil here, but top notch synthetics like Castrol Edge and Shell Helix Ultra (which is same/similar as PU) are about $15 to $17 per liter, and Mobil-One is about $18 to $19 per liter.
So that's why I've been sticking with more basic options, which are still about $9/L, and that’s actually about as "cheap" as it (5w30) gets here. This would typically be something like Valvoline Durablend, which is still a fairly decent oil (GF5, Dexos1). Currently I'm running this to about 6000 or 7000 miles, so as you can see, to justify the extra cost of the $15 to $19 per liter synthetics I'd want to extend the drain interval.
BTW. I'm doing 10k miles every 6 months.
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$9 to $19 per Liter??
Holy cow! That's a high price to pay for living down there [with the attendant benefit that we can see water drain the wrong way down the sink]!
The good news is that dino or full synth, oils are really good and long lasting now.
Holy cow! That's a high price to pay for living down there [with the attendant benefit that we can see water drain the wrong way down the sink]!
The good news is that dino or full synth, oils are really good and long lasting now.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
$9 to $19 per Liter??
Holy cow! That's a high price to pay for living down there [with the attendant benefit that we can see water drain the wrong way down the sink]!
The good news is that dino or full synth, oils are really good and long lasting now.
Yep, motor oil is definitely priced a lot higher here, especially the lighter weight ones.
Still in terms of cost per mile, $10 per liter motor oil works out at only 1 cent or less per mile (for a typical 6300 mile/10,000 km OCI). That's still very much lower than the cost per mile for petrol, which would typically be 15+ cents per mile here.
After reading all the replies here I think I'm doing the right thing to use the (relative) lower cost oil (which is still quite good oil) and keep the OCI around the normal 6000 to 7000 mile range, rather than going for the crazy priced stuff and trying to stretch out the OCI too much.
I'm currently running Vavloline Durablend 5W30. It's dexos1 rated and costs about $9/L here.
$9 to $19 per Liter??
Holy cow! That's a high price to pay for living down there [with the attendant benefit that we can see water drain the wrong way down the sink]!
The good news is that dino or full synth, oils are really good and long lasting now.
Yep, motor oil is definitely priced a lot higher here, especially the lighter weight ones.
Still in terms of cost per mile, $10 per liter motor oil works out at only 1 cent or less per mile (for a typical 6300 mile/10,000 km OCI). That's still very much lower than the cost per mile for petrol, which would typically be 15+ cents per mile here.
After reading all the replies here I think I'm doing the right thing to use the (relative) lower cost oil (which is still quite good oil) and keep the OCI around the normal 6000 to 7000 mile range, rather than going for the crazy priced stuff and trying to stretch out the OCI too much.
I'm currently running Vavloline Durablend 5W30. It's dexos1 rated and costs about $9/L here.
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Originally Posted By: uart
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I probably should have mentioned that I'm in Australia and oil prices are a bit different here. In particular, 0wXX and 5wXX full synthetics are still pretty expensive.
I can get a reasonably stout 10w40 / 15W40 oil (eg shell helix hx7, castrol GTX) for about $6 to $7 per liter. However I've lately been using 5w30 as my preferred grade, and there's nothing really below $9 to $10 per liter here (it's just the way the pricing is in Australia).
We don't have Pennzoil here, but top notch synthetics like Castrol Edge and Shell Helix Ultra (which is same/similar as PU) are about $15 to $17 per liter, and Mobil-One is about $18 to $19 per liter.
So that's why I've been sticking with more basic options, which are still about $9/L, and that’s actually about as "cheap" as it (5w30) gets here. This would typically be something like Valvoline Durablend, which is still a fairly decent oil (GF5, Dexos1). Currently I'm running this to about 6000 or 7000 miles, so as you can see, to justify the extra cost of the $15 to $19 per liter synthetics I'd want to extend the drain interval.
BTW. I'm doing 10k miles every 6 months.
Many members here only buy Mobil 1 when it is on sale(plus rebate) at one of the chains for about $4-5 or less. Regular price of Mobil 1 in 5-quarts container is about $24-26, but the Mobil 1 0W40 is only in 1 quart bottle at $6.xx.
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I probably should have mentioned that I'm in Australia and oil prices are a bit different here. In particular, 0wXX and 5wXX full synthetics are still pretty expensive.
I can get a reasonably stout 10w40 / 15W40 oil (eg shell helix hx7, castrol GTX) for about $6 to $7 per liter. However I've lately been using 5w30 as my preferred grade, and there's nothing really below $9 to $10 per liter here (it's just the way the pricing is in Australia).
We don't have Pennzoil here, but top notch synthetics like Castrol Edge and Shell Helix Ultra (which is same/similar as PU) are about $15 to $17 per liter, and Mobil-One is about $18 to $19 per liter.
So that's why I've been sticking with more basic options, which are still about $9/L, and that’s actually about as "cheap" as it (5w30) gets here. This would typically be something like Valvoline Durablend, which is still a fairly decent oil (GF5, Dexos1). Currently I'm running this to about 6000 or 7000 miles, so as you can see, to justify the extra cost of the $15 to $19 per liter synthetics I'd want to extend the drain interval.
BTW. I'm doing 10k miles every 6 months.
Many members here only buy Mobil 1 when it is on sale(plus rebate) at one of the chains for about $4-5 or less. Regular price of Mobil 1 in 5-quarts container is about $24-26, but the Mobil 1 0W40 is only in 1 quart bottle at $6.xx.
One of the BMW forums did a comparison of the differences between different oil brands and types based on UOA results and the figures for Castrol Edge were slightly better than for GTX, but not by much and the big surprise was that GTX beat some major brand synthetics in that test.
There is a difference between different brands, mostly because of the quality of the additives use, but the main advantage of fully synthetic oil is that it lasts longer. It does provide slightly better cold start protection and does not break down if the turbo bearings get overheated etc, BUT in UOA terms there is not much of a difference in the results and in the end it is quality that counts.
I would never recommend doubling the OCI just because you change from using GTX to Edge. A 50% increase might be reasonable and I would guess that changing oil twice as often with GTX would provide better results, BUT only if you left the old filter in use until the recommended service interval, because dirty filters are more efficient than clean ones.
Originally Posted By: uart
Thanks for the info everyone. I knew that this question was a bit like "how long is a piece of string". So many factors that could influence the result, different engines, different oils and different service conditions.
So for the sake of a definite example, say you had something basic like a Toyota Corolla under relatively easy service conditions. What do you think would result in better overall protection, Castrol GTX with 2 OCIs at 6k miles compared with say Castrol Edge with 1 OCI at 12k miles?
** Assume that the long oci engine is still inspected regularly and topped off if needed.
There is a difference between different brands, mostly because of the quality of the additives use, but the main advantage of fully synthetic oil is that it lasts longer. It does provide slightly better cold start protection and does not break down if the turbo bearings get overheated etc, BUT in UOA terms there is not much of a difference in the results and in the end it is quality that counts.
I would never recommend doubling the OCI just because you change from using GTX to Edge. A 50% increase might be reasonable and I would guess that changing oil twice as often with GTX would provide better results, BUT only if you left the old filter in use until the recommended service interval, because dirty filters are more efficient than clean ones.
Originally Posted By: uart
Thanks for the info everyone. I knew that this question was a bit like "how long is a piece of string". So many factors that could influence the result, different engines, different oils and different service conditions.
So for the sake of a definite example, say you had something basic like a Toyota Corolla under relatively easy service conditions. What do you think would result in better overall protection, Castrol GTX with 2 OCIs at 6k miles compared with say Castrol Edge with 1 OCI at 12k miles?
** Assume that the long oci engine is still inspected regularly and topped off if needed.
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Originally Posted By: uart
I know this is just about a FAQ, but has anyone ever really figured out the best trade-off between low cost oil and frequent changes versus expensive oil and long drain intervals?
What's considered low cost oil now? I'm not seeing 99 cent quart size bottles anymore...
I know this is just about a FAQ, but has anyone ever really figured out the best trade-off between low cost oil and frequent changes versus expensive oil and long drain intervals?
What's considered low cost oil now? I'm not seeing 99 cent quart size bottles anymore...
I will agree that doubling your OCI on synthetic isn't a great idea, but as others said, synthetic isn't 2x the cost either. Are syn and conventional similar in the "cost per mile of OCI" metric? Unsure.
From my standpoint, I really enjoy changing oil. I change it for 8 different cars (all but 3 not mine), and still think I go too long between getting a chance to have some fun. I cringe when I put synthetic in, because I know it'll be that much longer until I see that vehicle again to enjoy the oil change
From my standpoint, I really enjoy changing oil. I change it for 8 different cars (all but 3 not mine), and still think I go too long between getting a chance to have some fun. I cringe when I put synthetic in, because I know it'll be that much longer until I see that vehicle again to enjoy the oil change
Another Toyota (Scion xB, but whatever) owner chiming in here.
The factory interval is 7500 miles on conventional oil. I go 10k on Mobil 1 Extended Performance. That's around $30 for a 5qt jug at Walmart. Since the car only takes 4 quarts, every 5th oil change only costs me a filter.
But every 5k, I still do what I call the "no-oil-change oil change", which is everything I usually do on an oil change service *except* change the oil and filter!
The factory interval is 7500 miles on conventional oil. I go 10k on Mobil 1 Extended Performance. That's around $30 for a 5qt jug at Walmart. Since the car only takes 4 quarts, every 5th oil change only costs me a filter.
But every 5k, I still do what I call the "no-oil-change oil change", which is everything I usually do on an oil change service *except* change the oil and filter!
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Originally Posted By: EvanR
Another Toyota (Scion xB, but whatever) owner chiming in here.
what year?
did toyota ever reduce OCI in scion from 7500 to 5000 miles on regular oil?
Another Toyota (Scion xB, but whatever) owner chiming in here.
what year?
did toyota ever reduce OCI in scion from 7500 to 5000 miles on regular oil?
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: EvanR
Another Toyota (Scion xB, but whatever) owner chiming in here.
what year?
did toyota ever reduce OCI in scion from 7500 to 5000 miles on regular oil?
I actually have no idea what the factory OCI is, but the "oil change" light goes on every 5k.
Originally Posted By: EvanR
Another Toyota (Scion xB, but whatever) owner chiming in here.
what year?
did toyota ever reduce OCI in scion from 7500 to 5000 miles on regular oil?
I actually have no idea what the factory OCI is, but the "oil change" light goes on every 5k.
4718M is the GM Corvette spec. It is a high temp spec, and was developed to allow GM to drop the engine oil cooler they had used on the Tuned Port Injection engines when they transitioned to the LT1. Typically 4718M oils are excellent for high performance/high temp applications and GM specs it for LTx, LSx, and I believe some of the newer engines like the LSA- pre-dexos. Just about anything GM made that was higher performance they threw 4718M at it. I got 3 OCI worth of 4718M Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w30 for the wife's Grand Caravan FAR....thats how daddy likes it!
Hi Uart, you mentioned some mighty high prices for motor oil in Australia. I just want to be sure you're using U.S. dollars and not Australian dollars, which differ a little in the exchange rate. Thanks.
....by the way, I think you are quoting U.S. dollars, and not Australian dollars, but I just want to be sure 
Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Hi Uart, you mentioned some mighty high prices for motor oil in Australia. I just want to be sure you're using U.S. dollars and not Australian dollars, which differ a little in the exchange rate. Thanks.
Hi well built. No those prices were Australian dollars, but they're pretty similar at the moment. I think $1Au has been in the range of about $1.00 to $1.10 US over the past year or so.
The prices I was quoting were for 5wXX or 0wXX oils which tend to be more expensive. You can get (relatively) cheap oil here (like $3.50 to $4.00 per liter) but mostly just in 20W50. For some reason when you get into thinner stuff like 5WXX oils the starting price is about $10 per liter.
I'm currently paying about $10/L for Valvoline Durablend 5W30, and seriously that's about the cheapest 5W30 I can buy.
Hi Uart, you mentioned some mighty high prices for motor oil in Australia. I just want to be sure you're using U.S. dollars and not Australian dollars, which differ a little in the exchange rate. Thanks.
Hi well built. No those prices were Australian dollars, but they're pretty similar at the moment. I think $1Au has been in the range of about $1.00 to $1.10 US over the past year or so.
The prices I was quoting were for 5wXX or 0wXX oils which tend to be more expensive. You can get (relatively) cheap oil here (like $3.50 to $4.00 per liter) but mostly just in 20W50. For some reason when you get into thinner stuff like 5WXX oils the starting price is about $10 per liter.
I'm currently paying about $10/L for Valvoline Durablend 5W30, and seriously that's about the cheapest 5W30 I can buy.
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