Userfriendly will do what userfriendly does. Now explain why you need H speed rated tires on a 1500 ram.
Inadequate tires from the factory
- Thread starter Nick1994
- Start date
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
And I don't care what you do specifically, my point was with respect to the remark about P-metric tires being a "cheap out" by the OEM, where the reality is they are chosen because they are appropriate for the capabilities and capacities of the vehicle.
1/2 tons are pretty light duty, if they required the load carrying capacity of an LT tire, they would come with them. Also, the OEM's put crap LT tires on 3/4 and 1-tons, the act of choosing less than ideal rubber from an OEM perspective is not reserved for only one segment or line of vehicle.
With respect to the H rating, it's probably beneficial in terms of heat and load capacity, having that extra margin, but the H rating is only up to 210Km/h, which is also the top speed of the truck, so from that standpoint, it's technically appropriate.
I was wrong about the tread depth. The oem Rav4 Wildpeaks AT Trail have a tread depth of 7/32 compared to the aftermarket ones that have 11/32. Both are Wildpeak AT Trail tires. Toyota fooling people in thinking their TRurd have a real ATW tire on them.
I don’t see the problem. Unless you’re talking about super cars you know you’re likely to get something that is a compromise for all seasons. Seems like a better set up for people to get a tire they can use in every climate at the sacrifice of outright performance and those who want performance can easily have the dealer swap in some better rubber that has practical trade offs for its performance.
I’m going to guess there is a significant amount of fat on the bone for the dealer on a car like that so no reason at all for them to lose the minority of people that buy a car like that and insist on high performance summer tires being added prior to sale. Same kvetching happens with mountain bikes and the factory tires because everyone’s trails are different so you get meh tires with your $10k+ S-Works. At the end of the day you’d be surprised how many people buy a high performance car to tootle around in comfort mode there is a running joke about how basically most of the S65 AMGs where purchased by wealthy women in Beverly Hills who went to the dealership and said “I want the most expensive one you’ve got”.
If you’re taking advantage of these cars to the point that you really really really need performance rubber then you probably should be on a track anyways.
Regarding off road tech. Let’s be honest, off-road stuff absolutely sucks on the road, your best off road machines are largely dismal on the roads both in clean conditions and in the snow. Off-roading is a niche activity with a heavy emphasis on customization. The the majority of vehicles on the road including your macho man Randy Savage trucks and SUVs would have little to no issue with a HT tire the enthusiasts will always want to pick exactly what they want anyways.
I’m going to guess there is a significant amount of fat on the bone for the dealer on a car like that so no reason at all for them to lose the minority of people that buy a car like that and insist on high performance summer tires being added prior to sale. Same kvetching happens with mountain bikes and the factory tires because everyone’s trails are different so you get meh tires with your $10k+ S-Works. At the end of the day you’d be surprised how many people buy a high performance car to tootle around in comfort mode there is a running joke about how basically most of the S65 AMGs where purchased by wealthy women in Beverly Hills who went to the dealership and said “I want the most expensive one you’ve got”.
If you’re taking advantage of these cars to the point that you really really really need performance rubber then you probably should be on a track anyways.
Regarding off road tech. Let’s be honest, off-road stuff absolutely sucks on the road, your best off road machines are largely dismal on the roads both in clean conditions and in the snow. Off-roading is a niche activity with a heavy emphasis on customization. The the majority of vehicles on the road including your macho man Randy Savage trucks and SUVs would have little to no issue with a HT tire the enthusiasts will always want to pick exactly what they want anyways.
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1500 braking on a hairpin curve decending a 14% grade between Lillooet and Pemberton, BC @ rated GVW and trailer in tow. What is the load on the outside front tire?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Within the safe margin for whatever tires the vehicle was spec'd with.
Again, Freddy Bobby who puts Load Range E's on his 1/2 ton and then runs them at 40psi actually has LESS load carrying capacity than than the OE P-Metric's at 35:
If he runs them at Placard, it's even lower still.
People don't know tires and since LT's ride like a bag of ass compared to OE P-metrics, the tendency is for people to reduce the pressure to improve that.
Joe Operator putting BFG Mud Terrains on the stepped-out offshore chromies with his 4" China-lifted F-150 and running an 8" drop hitch so his toy hauler isn't pointed for low earth orbit is a far greater liability on the road than somebody like my father driving a 20 year old Expedition with a 5 year old set of LTX's (P-Metric) at placard.
The manufacturers aren't stupid. They will have anticipated scenarios such as the one you've depicted.
i remember the goodyear wranger ST’s on our 98 silverado 1500 would go flat if you looked at them the wrong way.
You
The 20" tires on my 3500 has far more bead to wheel contact that 17" that are stock on 2500s. If I was to lower the tire pressure to 40psi,
the wheel would likely spin on the tire on high traction surfaces. Think of a drag race vehicle, dirt bike with rim locks and off road vehicles with bead lock wheels.
The GVW on the 3500 is 12,000 lbs. The tires are 126 Load rating and 128 on my 2500 (285/75/18s and 295/65/20) for a total far higher than the GVW. I guess that 90% of the time both trucks run around empty under 8,000 lbs, or about 50% of the tires' load capacity. I run all of them at 65 psi and only crank them up to 80 for storage or max loading.
BTW, I and many others (even women who are not compensating for a small package) that run E-rated tires need the tread depth and puncture resistance they offer.
You're looking at the static load on a given tire and not the dynamic loading which includes engine and braking forces.
The 20" tires on my 3500 has far more bead to wheel contact that 17" that are stock on 2500s. If I was to lower the tire pressure to 40psi,
the wheel would likely spin on the tire on high traction surfaces. Think of a drag race vehicle, dirt bike with rim locks and off road vehicles with bead lock wheels.
The GVW on the 3500 is 12,000 lbs. The tires are 126 Load rating and 128 on my 2500 (285/75/18s and 295/65/20) for a total far higher than the GVW. I guess that 90% of the time both trucks run around empty under 8,000 lbs, or about 50% of the tires' load capacity. I run all of them at 65 psi and only crank them up to 80 for storage or max loading.
BTW, I and many others (even women who are not compensating for a small package) that run E-rated tires need the tread depth and puncture resistance they offer.
I have 33.5" Kenda Klever RT's on my F-150 and love them. I little highway hum, but I'll take it for the meaty 17/32nds of tread. They actually run smooth for an E rated and have been awesome towing an 18' trailer full of quads or picking up firewood through slash covered trails.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I'm not looking at anything, I'm expecting the manufacturer to consider all of these things in the context of spec'ing a tire, and pressure, that's appropriate for the application, which in this case is half-ton trucks.
I'm also not sure what your mentioning of your 1-ton has to do with your point about half-tons, which is, in case you forgot, the point I was responding to:
userfriendly said:
Your one ton has a placard that lists the appropriate pressures for the LT tires spec'd for it, a half ton that came with P-Metric tires will have a placard that shows the spec'd pressure for that tire, which will be wholly inappropriate for an LT of the same size and result in a lower load carrying capacity.
This isn't that complicated.
Again, what does any of that have to do with running load range E tires on a half ton? Last time I checked, LT's were factory spec on 3/4 and 1-ton trucks, and the tire pressure spec'd was with that, and the appropriate load carrying capacity, in mind.
This whole conversation is like you telling me it's logical to run a .50BMG muzzle brake on a .223 because what if you shot a deer? I point out that your .223 didn't come with a brake because it doesn't shoot a cartridge big enough to need one and the big bore brake may actually have a negative impact on ballistics even though it looks "super awesome" and then you start telling me about what you run on your Barrett M82A1 and McMillan TAC-50. Those two points aren't congruent.
I'm not sure where this bizarre and immature quip about phallic inadequacy is coming from, I've not drawn into question the integrity of your manhood or that this should somehow correlate with the topic at hand. I haven't got the sense that you identify with either of my fictional stereotypes (Freddy Bobby or Joe Operator) whose liability stems from ignorance and the pursuit of form over function.
You just provided two personal examples of trucks that spec LT tires, which I have no issue with, however, the relevance to our original exchange is still a mystery at this point, as this was in response to my post about half tons, which was in response to your post about running load range E tires in 1/2 ton applications, which quite often spec a P-Metric tire.
I'm not sure if this is typically how you converse, but to describe this as a train wreck in terms of trying to maintain any sense of consistent and structured discourse is being extremely generous. I don't know what it is you THINK you are conveying here, in terms of a point, as I assume you have one, but whatever it is, is quite clearly lost in the series of tangents and anecdotes with little to no relevance.
I've been quite clear as to the topic of half tons having load range E tires slapped on them and the potential pitfalls, caveats and general ignorance that swirl around that activity. Yes, LT tires will have increased puncture resistance and tread depth. They can also succumb to thermal fatigue if run perpetually under-inflated, which is a significant possibility with them in an application that didn't spec them and has a placard that lists pressure for P-Metric tires. In the context of your average 1/2 ton and SUV driver dragging the boat back and forth to the cottage or bringing home stuff from Home Depot, those characteristics are mostly irrelevant and it is almost assured that the pressure run will be inappropriate and the resultant combination is actually less safe and less capable than with the OE spec tires on it.
There have been numerous exchanges on this board over the duration of our tenure here about tires, the load tables, and similar. And the tire pressure exchanges in particular, are extremely enlightening as to the general lack of knowledge as to what's appropriate when using a non-spec tire in an application, and in particular, the issue I previously outlined regarding having to determine, manually, the appropriate pressure using the load tables when using LT tires in P-Metric applications. Given this, in the context of a group of enthusiasts, if you extend that to the general population where ignorance is vastly more abundant, it becomes quite clear that this is a subject where the majority is going to be doing it wrong.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
And there's nothing inherently wrong with an owner putting LT's on a 1/2 ton provided they ignore the placard and use the load tables to determine the appropriate pressure.
This exchanged stemmed from the assertion that the OEM's were "cheapening out" by fitting P-Metric tires to 1/2 tons instead of LT's, which is nonsense. They fit P-Metric tires because they align with the capabilities of the vehicle while also providing a better ride. Given the typical usage profile of 1/2 ton trucks, that's a very reasonable approach.
Then it went into the weeds.
At that point you're still dealing with lateral forces more than weight pushing down on the tire. In fact, in most situations on steep hills towing I've found the front seems to like to unload.
Towing a LOT through 14% grade hairpin roads in PA (look up PA-125 , Pennsylvania's Tail of the dragon), with various 1/2 ton trucks on p-rated tires, it's never been a tire rating issue that's caused concerns. I've lost traction to the front tires going down these hairpins stab braking the surge brakes. And same going up, lost traction causing it to spin a bit.
You're also not running at high speeds in hairpins either. Slower speeds, even with heavy brake applications the tires just don't get as hot.
Agreed! I just offered an example where LT's don't necessarily have to ride like a bag of ass (which is quite funny, BTW).
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
So if you don't trust the tires that came on the truck running at GVW with a trailer under trying conditions curious why would you trust the OEM 1500 brakes?
I have towed across the country to the Rubicon trail and Moab and prefer LT's for the amount of stuff I bring. I think for most applications, P's are fine and they certainly ride better as discussed (and IMO are not some type of cheap alternative by the OEM). LT's handle and ride better for me and what I do, but I also pay attention to air pressure and not the placard that was specd for the stock P275/65R18's. I'm usually prepared for anything with tools, a floor jack, electric impact and Viair 400H compressor in the truck box, so she's a little fat right off the bat. Factory P pressure on my truck I believe is 35psi. With LT's, the sweet spot seems to be about 47. I arrived at this not only from reviewing the load rating, but also went old school and used chalk. I'v used chalk for a lot of custom vehicles and non-factory tire combos and ATV's! When I drove around Moab with my Jeep on Micky Thompson Claws, I found that 15-16psi was pretty good. I run 2-3psi on the trail.
@OVERKILL made a great point that many people do not understand the P/LT differences in regard to their application, so now we have bro trucks running around on under inflated tires.
You've responded before to my putting the stock E-rated tires on my son's 1500 GMC. Userfriendly's trickle down system. Your rant this time again, is just more of the same uninformed opinion. Lots of people over-tire their half ton trucks. Get over it. Do you need a 338 LM to put a hole in a piece of paper?
My coments about E-rated tires on the HDs was to point out the rundant load rating of 1,000 lbs per tire, which you have a problem with on 1500s.
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Explain how you get a better ride with 22" /45s ? No sidewall to absorb much in the way of rough pavement never mind potholes and railroad tracks.
edit; And how long do those paper thin P-rated tires last with 11/32" tread when new?
You're posting from experience which is called an informed opinion. It's the Monday morning quarterbacks I have trouble with.
Right, and passenger railway cars run on steel wheels.