Impressed with the upcoming Honda Fit

[Bill in Utah]

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but VW will contintue to scratch their heads and wonder why Americans don't buy Golfs. Build it and price it like an econobox, we'll buy many. Build it and price it like an Audi, and we'll buy an Audi.

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And build it so you don't have to be at the dealership every other month for 3-4 days.

I've got a few co-workers who have VW Jettas (one is a 2003 TDI and the other is a 2005 2.0gas) and both have major problems.

The delaerships (yes two different ones) don't stock parts, don't seem to know how to work on Mexican built cars..

My 1986 has been perfect with 270k+ miles, I know I would not buy a newer one...

Sad..

When I decided to get a new car, I would have first been to the VW dealership, but after seeing the "service" and product..

The 1986 was a fun simple car. The new ones seem to have motors for windows that don't work, motors for sunroofs that don't seal, Brake problems, Stereo problems, rear tail light problems, dash tach and coolant temp guage problems to name a few.

All for Audi prices...

I still think that for what they are trying to get for a Fit, I'd either go for a Corolla or a Civic.. And get better MPG...

Take care, Bill

 

[bar1]

I like those small cars.
Last year I had to choose between Honda Fit (Jazz here) or Civic, Toyota Corolla, VW Golf, Opel Astra, Ford Focus, Peugeot 307, Renault Megane and Nissan Almera.
Opel dealer gave me the best price for my old car and that dealer have a good reputation here. Easy choice..

 

[vad]

Finally was able to get my hands on the comparison test of 7 newest economibiles in the May issue of Car and Driver.

First Place
Honda Fit Sport

Highs: Overtly sporty handling, classy interior, quick-witted in all its moves.

Lows: Mediocre rear-three-quarter visibility, no dead pedal.

Verdict: The go-kart of economobiles.

"Out little red Fit was the quickest to 60 mph (8.7 sec - tied with the Reno) and the quickest in the quarter-mile yet offered the least engine NVH and the second-best observed fuel economy - 35 mpg over 1,000 mile trip (The best was the Yaris with 36 mpg. The third best was the Kia/Hyundai duo with 30 mpg).
It came equipped with the most supportive seats, the most expensive-looking interior, an Acura-grade gauge cluster, and the ergonomics of an Accord.
What truly set the Fit apart was its handling - not a pretense of handling but the real deal, with springs and struts that allowed one gentle rebound and no more, the only car that felt happy storming the switchbacks.
We later confirmed this when the Fit sailed through oul lane-change test 6 mph faster than anything else here - faster, in fact, than a Corvette Z06."

P.S. It's also worth mentioning that the Fit was the only car in this test to obtain the perfect scores in each of the "Fit and Finish", "Performance", "Transmission", "Steering Feel" and "Handling" categories.

Second Place
Nissan Versa 1.8SL

Highs: Superb ride-and-handling trade-off, a back seat for three adults, commanding view ahead.

Lows: Throttle overrun, narrow front seats, awkward recline levers.

The Verdict: If you're chiefly interested in commuting and errand hopping, this is the one.

Third Place
Kia Rio5 SX (the best looking by far IMHO)

Highs: Fun styling, some pretense of handling, big cargo capacity.

Lows: Another rope-a-dope shifter, no automatic door locks, a name that still draws quizzical looks.

The Verdict: Like finding a dollar bill n your bag of Fritos, it won't change your life but it's a pleasant surprise.

Fourth Place
Toyota Yaris S

Highs: Velvety ride, fun shifter, agile around town, best observed fuel economy.

Lows: Too much body roll, cramped rear seat, falls short on directional stability.

The Verdict: A good replacement for the Echo but not a great replacement for the Echo.

Fifth - Hyundai Accent GLS
Sixth - Dodge Caliber SE
Seventh - Suzuki Reno

 

[JHZR2]

nobody denies that Honda makes a good product... how many years have they had to optimize the fit, selling it in outher countries? (same for the other offerings from other makers)... what kind of R&D budget do they have to make top-notch engines? What kind of great experience do they have in ergonomics, etc? lots for sure... and it shows.

Does not make its fuel economy, for what it is... poor. Now if it was getting 44+ MPG, Id be excited and considering adding to my fleet!

JMH

 

[vad]

Actually I believe that the fuel economy is great, considering the conditions and the driving style of the C&D writers who push the test cars to the limit.
The Caliber scored at only 28 mpg, so did the Nissan Versa and Suzuki Reno.

 

[JHZR2]

that may be so... but I dont believe in just mindlessly mashing the go pedal.

EPA economy is still what... 38 highway?

come on, thats easy... Im falling asleep. Surely Honda can excite me by giving my 40... or 42 MPG?!?!?!?

JMH

 

[vad]

Maybe in the next redesign...
It's due pretty soon - in a year or two?
If it sells well in the States, we might get the redesigned version soon after it's released throughout the world.
I believe the Honda's goal is to sell 30K copies during the first year, and then 50K thereafter.

 

[brianl703]

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EPA economy is still what... 38 highway?

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The 2004 Pontiac Grand Am with the 2.2L Ecotec and the 5speed manual is EPA rated at 37 highway (26 city).

Interesting given that it's about a midsize car and as I recall weighs a bit over 3000lbs.

 

[javacontour]

I believe in that same issue of C&D (or is it this months Road and Track) they talk about the EPA fuel economy ratings.

The EPA played with the ratings. They tested the vehicles and then just adjusted the highway figure down 20% from their test results.

Seems too many folks were not meeting the previous EPA ratings.

This seems to ring true. My Scion tC is rated for 29MPG on the highway, but I've done close to 32 in mixed driving, but mostly highway.

So if you are comparing EPA ratings today to vehicles 20 years ago, you are not comparing apples and oranges.

So that Honda rated at 38 highway is technically able to get 45 to 46MPG when everything is perfect.

Of course, that same correction factor can apply to every car tested, not just the Honda.

 

[brianl703]

By the way, since when did it become cool to add a bunch of useless illumination to gauges?

Pretty much everything in blue could be removed without taking away any functionality.

 

[brianl703]

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The EPA played with the ratings.

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A while ago I looked and I was unable to find out exactly when the EPA started doing that.

 

[javacontour]

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Originally written by Dennis Simanaitis, May 2006 Road and Track, page 110


EPA CITY/HWY, REVISITED

There's controversy concerning the Environmental Protection Agency's current proposed changes. However, the problem isn't neccessarily in the testing. (See "Tech Tidbits, " elsewhere in this issue.)

EPA estimates of fuel economy are based on laboratory tests performed under controlled conditions. This cuts both ways: They're repeatable (crucial of any good science) and thus an excellent comparator. But they're also purely reflective of these test conditions, and hence cannot hope to mimic the multitude of varied driving modes in the real world.

Briefly, each car is driven on chassis dynamometer, a calibrated treadmill of sorts. Its exhaust emissions are captured and analyzed, a technique called carbon balance used to assess the fuel consumed. (Carbon balance, by the way, is much more accurate than any volumetric measurement.)

The City Cycle, aka FTP (Federal Test Procedure) nee LA4, is 1372 secons in duration, a 7.5-mile simulation of trip around downtown Los Angeles during the rush hour. Its average speed is 19.7 mph; its 22.9 minutes includes 18 stops and some 4 minutes of idling. The Hwy Cycle is based on a suburban/exurban jaunt around Ann Arbor, Michigan, home of a principal EPA test facility.

Two decades ago, in an effort to match consumer experience, the EPA devised correction factors for these results. Since then, the published City number has been 10 percent less than the test value; the Hwy, 22 percent less.

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Notice the last paragraph of this four paragraph quote. For approximately 20 years, the test results have been adjusted down from the test numbers obtain on the dyno.

 

[ScottB]

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Originally posted by brianl703:
By the way, since when did it become cool to add a bunch of useless illumination to gauges?

Pretty much everything in blue could be removed without taking away any functionality.

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Could you find anything more inane to gripe about?
If US auto makers cared about little details like that they'd go a long way towards getting customers back.
Useless or not, people like that stuff.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Well, it's not like it's got a Pontiac faux-racing gauge cluster and yards of plastic body fairings.

Seriously, that is a pretty weak gripe.

 

[rjundi]

If this market segment does well at all, the Big Three once again have their pants down! Sell more SUV's!

There is not on model in this class they sell to remotely compete. The Aveo is a P0S in comparison. Maybe they will travel over to Europe to get something like the Ford Ka and the Opel ????.

 

[brianl703]

I'm just comparing it with Saab, who adds a button to turn off illumination (called the "night panel") on all guages except the speedometer. Meanwhile, this has extra useless illumination to further distract you at night.

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Could you find anything more inane to gripe about?

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I think it's about as substantial as other complaints about the interior design of vehicles I've seen on here.

I'm also getting pretty sick of vehicles that have shiny crap on the dashboard. Ever heard of "sun glare"? Of course it's probably not a problem when your target market doesn't even get out of bed before 6pm.

 

[brianl703]

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For approximately 20 years

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So that means what? They changed the figures in 1984? 1985? 1986? What is "approximately 20 years"?

 

[JHZR2]

yeah, the use of 'upscale' dash and control elements... i.e. extra illumination, brightening, metallicizing (sp?), chrome plating and whatnot gets to me. what makes it fancy or upscale? Nothing... its just gimmicky. The steering wheel and its materials, on the other hand... look nice.

And this isnt a honda gripe, its a gripe about most every vehicle (except saab, which actually takes some thought into the design of their controls for safety).

As for EPA MPG, this is a user issue, plain and simple. Too many people only drive auto transmission cars, and it has frankly made them stupid. Heck, I feel myself getting stupider when I drive an AT car... Just mash the go pedal and get out there as fast as you can... I see it every day at the stoplights.

If people learned a bit about motion, inertia, etc., etc. by driving a manual trans car, chances are most would become better drivers. There really is no good reason for all the jackrabbit starts from economy cars.

And since people cant modulate the throttle properly anymore, they jackrabbit start, suck down gas, and then wonder why they cant get EPA fuel economy numbers.

We log fuel economy in all 9 of our cars... and every single one of them beats the EPA estimates.

JMH

 

[brianl703]

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Just mash the go pedal and get out there as fast as you can

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Except, of course, if the light that just turned green is one that has a huge traffic queue in front of it.

Then you should accelerate as slowly as possible, bonus points if you're in the far right lane and need to get to the left (or vice-versa) and stop completely till someone lets you in.

 

[Tosh]

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Originally posted by rjundi:
There is not on model in this class they sell to remotely compete. The Aveo is a P0S in comparison. Maybe they will travel over to Europe to get something like the Ford Ka and the Opel ????.

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What?! We're too unappreciative to even get the latest Focus. Although we are deemed deserving of bigger Opels dressed as Saturns.

PS. Perhaps we should not make judgments about gauge illumination based on long exposure advertising photos?