If HPL was NOT a sponsor here then how would it truly compare to other boutique oils like redline and Amsoil? What makes HPL different and special?

TiGeo said:
What is spotty about them?
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Nothing crazy bad. Some have been quite good. I like Red Line. Curious to see how the SP stuff looks.

Lot of the UOA's on the Russian site show the same behavior as we see here. Pb spike and Al/Tin which often settles but not all the time. Rapid tbn drop, along with oxidation in some engines that don't see normal operating temps. Being GM and Cummins no longer consider TBN a valid test, I am not sure it matters though. Red Line also failed the TEOST test a few years back via Amsoil. However, that test is also questionable but may be more relevant to intake valve deposits.
 
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SubieRubyRoo said:
Meh, the guys that know best don’t even use Noack, because it isn’t a relatable test to an oil’s performance other than checking a box. They’re even evaluating changing the test criteria.
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You spelled it correctly lol.

They're modifying the Noack test as they've found that Noack doesn't correlate well with oil consumption in the field.
 
Direct_Rejection said:
So is PUP correctly spelled Pup ?????
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No that would still be Pennzoil Ultra Platinum - PUP.

Noack is based of Kurt Noack:

1693947065383.png
 
Astro14 said:
Doesn’t change the logic - why would a company seek certifications when fewer than 1% of their customers would even be interested in them.

The number of consumers who already buy HPL (like me) are happy.

So, how many sales would come from these certifications? It’s near zero. Fractions of one percent. Fewer than one percent of sales now are to consumers and most of them are happy.

The tiny fringe asking for certifications aren’t really future customers, they’re those who are seeking talking points on which to base their criticism.

It would be a grossly negative ROI to seek those certifications when, again, greater than 99% of sales are to large entities, race teams, and others who have no need of certifications and the fringe wasn’t serious about buying anyway.

As far as open mind?

You’re the one that jumps in to threads, fails to read what’s been said, makes assumptions, and then makes posts predicated on these mistakes.

I’ve kept an open mind about your posts, assuming good intent on your part, but if you continue being deliberately obtuse, and controversial, it will be hard to avoid the conclusion that you’re trolling.
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Well, first, it does not matter. HPL bottle is kind of not that shiny. A bunch of other products have better looking bottles. Certification or not, the buyer will go for SuperTech, at least.
 
Tachyon said:
Your points are noted. It's essential to clarify that my comments were based on a broader perspective of the industry and not solely on HPL. The distinction between individual components being API-approved and the final formula's certification is understood. However, it's also crucial to approach these discussions with an open mind, recognizing that every member brings a unique perspective based on their experiences and research.

While I respect the depth of knowledge present in this forum, it's equally important to ensure that discussions remain objective and fact-based.

As for API licensing...

URL: https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/application-and-fees#tab-fees

View attachment 177017
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Yeah, that is not how it works.
As explained already, that is just fee.
You must develop and test the oil on your own.
When I was working on testing, my time+my expenses during road testing, and the expenses of other people, were far more than what VW charged company for VW504.00/507.00, which was 3,200 euros. I think we drank more in alcohol during the testing period.
There are other ways, that a lot of companies utilize, just buy additive packs, but even that has its price.
As @Astro14 pointed out, their customers are not individuals. If they were, they would have first spend bunch of money on bottle, marketing etc. Money that could be spent on actual oil.
I do not use HPL. But, I had some very good conversations with Dave. That being said, your posts make me think I will go get some stuff to use on track just because. Just because I actually trust them.
 
edyvw said:
Yeah, that is not how it works.
As explained already, that is just fee.
You must develop and test the oil on your own.
When I was working on testing, my time+my expenses during road testing, and the expenses of other people, were far more than what VW charged company for VW504.00/507.00, which was 3,200 euros. I think we drank more in alcohol during the testing period.
There are other ways, that a lot of companies utilize, just buy additive packs, but even that has its price.
As @Astro14 pointed out, their customers are not individuals. If they were, they would have first spend bunch of money on bottle, marketing etc. Money that could be spent on actual oil.
I do not use HPL. But, I had some very good conversations with Dave. That being said, your posts make me think I will go get some stuff to use on track just because. Just because I actually trust them.
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Hi edyvw,

I don't understand why you, and a few others, assume that I talk about @High Performance Lubricants. I don't have the slightest issue with that company. As I noted, they are not a boutique blender, but an Industrial Lubricant Manufacturer. I am sure that it's just an oversight, and that re-reading some of my posts should clarify things for you, and others.

As to the other issues you raised:

edyvw said:
Yeah, that is not how it works.
As explained already, that is just fee.
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@Astro14 said that it's hundreds of thousands of dollars, which it isn't.

edyvw said:
You must develop and test the oil on your own.
When I was working on testing, my time+my expenses during road testing, and the expenses of other people, were far more than what VW charged company for VW504.00/507.00, which was 3,200 euros. I think we drank more in alcohol during the testing period.
There are other ways, that a lot of companies utilize, just buy additive packs, but even that has its price.
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Then how does a boutique blender know that their product is superior to the API licensed offerings out there? How can make that claim, if they either can't afford, or won't spend the money to put their lubricant through the proper testing?
 
Tachyon said:
Then how does a boutique blender know that their product is superior to the API licensed offerings out there? How can make that claim, if they either can't afford, or won't spend the money to put their lubricant through the proper testing?
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Time for you to read, learn, and take a break from posting. I'm serious. This is another false claim.

HPL does do testing, and many of their tests are more rigorous than the tests required for API. They use TGA instead of Noack. It's a more accurate measure of a lubricant boil off under high heat.

They do very extensive testing, that's why big entities, and racing teams, use their products - the testing is comprehensive.

But for reasons that have been explained, ad nauseum, they don't seek API certifications.

Please start your reading here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/so-what-is-the-deal-with-hpl-oil.367630/ and read every post in this thread. Thanks,
 
Tachyon said:
Hi edyvw,

I don't understand why you, and a few others, assume that I talk about @High Performance Lubricants. I don't have the slightest issue with that company. As I noted, they are not a boutique blender, but an Industrial Lubricant Manufacturer. I am sure that it's just an oversight, and that re-reading some of my posts should clarify things for you, and others.

As to the other issues you raised:


@Astro14 said that it's hundreds of thousands of dollars, which it isn't.


Then how does a boutique blender know that their product is superior to the API licensed offerings out there? How can make that claim, if they either can't afford, or won't spend the money to put their lubricant through the proper testing?
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Knowing Astro, he definitely thought on all cost! Not just fee!
It is true that many people think that companies charge ridiculous amounts for approvals. That is not true. But development is key.
 
Tachyon said:
Hi edyvw,

I don't understand why you, and a few others, assume that I talk about @High Performance Lubricants. I don't have the slightest issue with that company. As I noted, they are not a boutique blender, but an Industrial Lubricant Manufacturer. I am sure that it's just an oversight, and that re-reading some of my posts should clarify things for you, and others.

As to the other issues you raised:


@Astro14 said that it's hundreds of thousands of dollars, which it isn't.


Then how does a boutique blender know that their product is superior to the API licensed offerings out there? How can make that claim, if they either can't afford, or won't spend the money to put their lubricant through the proper testing?
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How boutique oil developer knows? Bcs. sequences are known, bcs. they can compare to competition.
When I was prt of that we absolutely couldn’t fail! We were coming back to the market bcs. other events messed us up. We were going against primarily Shell Helix, Castrol and Liqui Moly. But we tested our products against those and Elf, Total, Selenia, OMV. We had to be good. We hd to bcs. if we messed up, our reputation is done. Shell? Not so much. It is Shell.
 
edyvw said:
How boutique oil developer knows? Bcs. sequences are known, bcs. they can compare to competition.
When I was prt of that we absolutely couldn’t fail! We were coming back to the market bcs. other events messed us up. We were going against primarily Shell Helix, Castrol and Liqui Moly. But we tested our products against those and Elf, Total, Selenia, OMV. We had to be good. We hd to bcs. if we messed up, our reputation is done. Shell? Not so much. It is Shell.
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Kind of off-topic, but where would you rank Castrol against Shell and Liqui-Moly in terms of quality/performance?
 
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