You don't need to spray it directly into its eyes. You need to get it close/form a cloud low down so it has to pass through it.
https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/...ears/pdfs/bear_spray_what_you_should_know.pdf
If 10mm is ok for bears, why not 357 mag?
- Thread starter weaponoffreedom
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https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/...ears/pdfs/bear_spray_what_you_should_know.pdf
You are gambling either way. Of course good to have a gun and training for dealing with bears for sure. Some interesting stats on this question:
http://www.bear-hunting.com/2019/8/firearm-vs-bear-spray
A couple of interesting conclusions and recommendations in that article:
1. Only those proficient with firearms should consider carrying them.
2. The firearm needs to be accessible.
3. Bear spray has a statistically better record of effectiveness.
4. Bear spray avoids many of the legal constraints that firearms have.
5. Carry both if you can.
100%. Back to my original post in this thread. Bear-specific firearm training is key. I hope to get it this year before I head out there.
What I thought was interesting about that particular article was the absence of any discussion on caliber/round.
In gun circles, and in this thread, that is a big topic of discussion, yet the linked bear hunting forum article didn’t mention any recommendation for caliber among several other good recommendations on the topic
I can tell you from being in that area with folks from AK that deal with this regularly, they don't talk much about it. I have ask many questions of these folks that are experts here in my search for buying a field gun and over and over "Buy what you are comfortable using and get training on how to use it in that situation, if you can't hit center of mass quickly and accurately, it won't matter what gun you have". Sure, nobody is carrying a .22 or a 9mm pistol for bears but the common ones I listed seem to be what is popular and over and over, the rifles/shotgun are the best choice is what they say but as discussed, those have limits depending on your situation to be able to have it close. I also learned that you need bear rounds regardless so for 10mm, you need the rounds that pack the punch necessary, not normal lower-grain target ammo. My final comment, I was shooting out there a few years ago with a Ruger Super Redhawk, .45 high-grain bear rounds. The guy giving me some training told me to unload it as fast as I could (double action) shoot to *somewhat* simulate an aggressive bear encounter and the fact that you would be scared, the target (big sheet of plywood) was about 20' away. I hit the board once.....big guns don't necessarily mean a thing if you can't hit what you are shooting at. With even a 9mm maybe I would have hit it multiple times and had a better chance...very sobering.
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Totally agree on point 5. (and 1 and 2 and 4 a bit, but really what concerns??)
Agree that both CAN be effective.
I cannot agree on 3 -any "statistical" conclusion comparing studies like that.
Per my comments in my first post shooting a bear will income game regulatory involvement vs. spray. That's all that is getting at. Clearly someone shooting a bear in self-defense isn't going to be concerned about that at the moment but the ensuing debacle of the investigation is a reasonable thing to call out. The stats are the stats whether you believe them or not....bear spray works.
Truth
But I just doubt comparing details of varied semi-scientific studies gleaned from historical information
I did say both can be effective but I will refrain from saying one is a clear winner. It takes more belief to draw a conclusion IMHO
There is no question bear spray is, or at least can be effective. The question remains with the application methods.
There is a huge difference between cops spraying a bunch of harmless kids, sitting on their butts protesting, and a person who has just invaded the personal space of a hungry, and very angry large bear.
Bear spray has a range of just a few feet, and with limited accuracy. And it has to be applied to the eyes and lungs, (hopefully), in order to have any effect at all.
Pistols, rifles, and shotgun slugs increase that distance substantially. And can be effectively applied to the head, spine, as well as several other important organs and bones the bear cannot do without.
And as with any self defense scenario, be it man or beast, the more distance you are able to keep between yourself, and your attacker, the better.
There is a huge difference between cops spraying a bunch of harmless kids, sitting on their butts protesting, and a person who has just invaded the personal space of a hungry, and very angry large bear.
Bear spray has a range of just a few feet, and with limited accuracy. And it has to be applied to the eyes and lungs, (hopefully), in order to have any effect at all.
Pistols, rifles, and shotgun slugs increase that distance substantially. And can be effectively applied to the head, spine, as well as several other important organs and bones the bear cannot do without.
And as with any self defense scenario, be it man or beast, the more distance you are able to keep between yourself, and your attacker, the better.
Bear spray shoots up to 35 feet...where are you getting "a few feet" from? Limited accuracy? Have you read any of the info I posted? I would support your accuracy will be also limited as you fumble for your gun as you have a few seconds to hit (accurately) the bear charging you. Bear spray need only be deployed in the direction (low) and hopefully not up wind! It does need to be sprayed directly in the bear's face to be effective. If a bear charges you I'm afraid you are in a bad situation either way. The idea is to keep that from happening which is what the spray is intended for. You don't shoot a bear standing 50' from you that isn't threatening you. They usually just leave when you yell at them in that case.
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How fast do you think an angry bear can travel 35 feet? It's mere seconds..... Yes, limited accuracy and range compared to any acceptable firearm capable of stopping a bear.
And as you mentioned if you're upwind, you are basically even more screwed, because bear spray becomes even more useless. If a bear charges you, which in a chance encounter is highly likely, (especially if its a mother with young), A firearm is going to be far more effective at keeping you safe.
Ask yourself this. If a far stronger and angrier opponent was looking to destroy you, what would you rather have in your hand? A firearm you know how to use, or a can of spray irritant? (You pick the type).
Very sobering, indeed.
I've done some very rapid fire with my Glock 20 (10mm, back to the caliber discussion) with full pressure 10mm ammo (Buffalo Bore). The gun is much more of a handful with full pressure ammo than the run of the mill 10mm.
But, and I guess this is the critical point - at 7 yards, they're all in the 5 ring of the silhouette, which is about like a bear at greater distance.
So, we are back to "what you are proficient with".
And yes, the good stuff matters in 10mm. I prefer the 220g hardcast Buffalo Bore. Rough ME is 700. Most commercial 10mm is closer to a .40 round, at 450-500 ME.
Agree.
I shoot overloaded 10mm (yeah I know, don't tell anyone) in my 10mm SBR AR (not a terrible bear idea). That chamber is strong. I tried those rounds in my Glock 20 long barrel build (basically 20L, with mods and new frame) and wow, yeah. Real kicker! Not that I would recommend these rounds in the field, but even if 5 or 6 out of 16 hit vitals, I would think threat slowed or stopped.
Bears? They don't mess with my 10mm's. Raccoons? They are always taking the 10mm sockets. I have some hidden away now. If I can find them.
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Is it really a dichotomy?
Down here most raccoons are still using SAE sockets. I guess you've got mostly Canadian raccoons living up there in South Abbotsford?
On my last trip to Alaska, my guide carried a 12 gauge Mossberg 500 loaded alternately with slugs and 000 buck. Harder to carry than a handgun for sure but I would trust myself to get more hits on target with a shotgun and it's got a heck of a lot more stopping power than any handgun.
The best way to stop a bear from charging is to take away his credit card.
The best way to stop a bear from charging is to take away his credit card.
A 12GA shotgun just has an insane amount of firepower.
