I wish Toyota offered a hot compact

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Maybe not when you bought your "Ginny", but NOW one can get a Recaro optioned Fiesta ST OTD for less than $17,500, as MANY on the ST sites HAVE.

BTW; the Fiesta STs are setup to 'rotate' VERY well, and NOT 'plow' as you claim they MUST, right from the factory, despite being 'wrong wheel drive'.
Add in some Koni Sport dampers, and a simple bolt on rear anti-sway bar, and one can out-oversteer your favored RWD specials by FAR, if desired (albeit not 'power'/drift oversteer).

Add in a Torsen style limited slip to the mix, and one waves BYE BYE to MANY more higher-powered/higher 'premium' rides, RWD or not.


Yeah, FiST is likely the better of the group. The ST/entire subcompact market kinda fell out. I was shopping when they were still "somewhat hot" market items. The Focus ST were going for a better deal (and the GTI on the heels of the diesel gate special). And I know the last of the Ginnys were going going for about 20K (V6 - 348bph) in the last death-throws after being nixed in the lineup). Same could be said about the V6 Camaros in 2015... those were getting stupid cheap and where better than expected.

You you want to really try to out oversteer the MR2? Aw-snap!

Finally, torsen LSD or not, the fiesta is not going to wave-bye to the RWD mentioned. Sorry. The weakest-link Mustang of the group will hold the line better. Sure, the Fiesta is more fun and chuckable, but the wider hips, ML/IRS and wider tires will hold speed better Fiesta. I hate to say it that even the Ginny can hold (some) corners better than the two.

Having actually rolled a car, watching Fiesta ST 2 wheeling clips gives me the chills... It would be be the perfect car for me if it was a bit lower and wider as I can't really justify rolling $15k+ into junk just to have some fun on the weekend. Cornering in a FRS/BRZ on good tires has to be experienced, then you realize all the hot hatches aren't really in the same league. Sure they can be made faster even on an autocross course but its expensive and full of compromises to lower the CoG much in a car.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Having actually rolled a car, watching Fiesta ST 2 wheeling clips gives me the chills... It would be be the perfect car for me if it was a bit lower and wider as I can't really justify rolling $15k+ into junk just to have some fun on the weekend. Cornering in a FRS/BRZ on good tires has to be experienced, then you realize all the hot hatches aren't really in the same league. Sure they can be made faster even on an autocross course but its expensive and full of compromises to lower the CoG much in a car.


I really love the FiST. For me, if it was just a bit safer (the crash-test concerned me) it might have been my non-MR2 family car. The 86 platform just could not fit a carseat well.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Cornering in a FRS/BRZ on good tires has to be experienced, then you realize all the hot hatches aren't really in the same league.


Like I've said on another site, when this was brought up; I'd 'rock' an 86, but only with a built Mast Motorsports LS3/TR6060 Magnum under the hood.

(It's one of the VERY FEW Nippon models which I actually like the aesthetics of.)

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
There's a bar up the road with really nasty food. The bar is really popular though and they sell a ton of fries and nachos, standard deep-fried pub fare. I really wish they had Michelin star chefs. The bar is surrounded by many 5 star high end restaurants, but for some reason I really want a top-end New York strip from this economically successful dive-bar and no where else that actually has experience and expertise in what I'm looking for: The thread.

No, they just want a bigger patty in their burger... Maybe with some real cheese too, instead of processed. Not expensive steak tartar that cause problems later!
The first Corolla/Matrix XRS was interesting with 180hp 1.8l, but I assume that yamaha motor was expensive to build, and it had a 6spd manual, premium gas, so priced itself out of the market.
The 2nd gen Matrix XR and XRS just got the Camry 2.4 and trans which costs no more to make than the regular matrix drivetrain, and they sold more of those for more years. Why they didn't try the 2.4L in the Corolla again I don't understand, but I guess sedans were supposed to boring then, and hatches fast/cool.
Just putting the motor from the next size up car, to make a performance version of the smaller car has got to be pretty cheap to do well for a manufacturer.



But we’re already getting the Corolla we “deserve” according to this Craigslist ad.

https://jalopnik.com/the-story-behind-one-of-the-funniest-craigslist-car-ads-1825571462

 

[nap]

They should revive the Celica. Not as a “sports” car but as a capable, sharp looking commuter car.

The 86 with RWD doesn’t work in the Canadian market for such use.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Elantra Sport is 6.5 seconds 0-60, Civic Si 6.7 seconds, Toyota 86 is 6.8 seconds. Sounds like the same to me

GTI is 5.9 seconds. Is 0.9 seconds a big difference? I only drive slow cars so...


0-60 is really a stupid number IMHO. The number that matters in normal driving is the torque delivery. The issue with slow 86 is the following:

DISPLACEMENT: 122 cu in, 1998 cc
POWER: 200 hp @ 7000 rpm
TORQUE: 151 lb-ft @ 6400 rpm
----------------------------------------------------
As opposed to a GTI in traffic and normal driving:
DISPLACEMENT: 121 cu in, 1984 cc
POWER: 220 hp @ 4700 rpm
TORQUE: 258 lb-ft @ 1500 rpm

So basically you drive around in gutless sports car unless you feel like revving the heck out of an 86. Even your slow car will feel more powerful likely then that stupid motor Subaru did. I once owned a terrible 04 Subaru WRX 2.0 that basically had no power below 4000RPM then like a rubber band sling shot it was intense. It was gutless especially with AC on. My wife's 96 Civic LX felt more powerful in normal driving. It got old and tiresome and fortunately sold with little depreciation to a kid.

Subaru did take care of the gutless issue by using a 2.5 motor with variable timing and better engine management two years later.

 

[HemiHawk]

I really wanted to like the GT86... and I did for a couple reasons. Ended up with the GTI. I think the GTIs 0-60 may even be quicker than quoted numbers...with better tires. Of course that's the case with many cars. But its pretty well known the GTI is under rated powerwise.

Like MadRiver said, you had to rev the nuts off the 86 to get anywhere. Which I didn't think I'd mind since my FA5 Civic Si had that sweet K20 with VTEC around 6500 RPM to 8200RPM. But while the 86 reved high, it was so characterless. The 86 had great balance but not very rewarding as a daily driver that could also handle. That car desperately needs a baby turbo for American roads. On a track it does so well at carrying speed in turns it doesn't need boost, but any on-ramp or steep grade quickly shows it needs 50hp+.