I voted early (not a po-lit-ee-kal thread)

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Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Originally Posted By: bigmike
When you all that agree with this line of thinking fund a way for visually impaired to vote independently, let us know! Then I might be on board for forced physical location voting.


Not to brag, but it took me only 0.00453 seconds to think of "Braille"!!
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I cannot, however, think of any valid reasons why inky voter-thumbs would be a bad thing.

Last election, there was a woman in Milwaukee who showed up to her local polling place in the evening and was told, "I'm sorry, you have already voted. Good bye!" Needless to say, she had NOT already voted.

What if voters were required to vote in person, and had to ink their thumbs and then put their thumb-print RIGHT ON A PAPER BALLOT while observed by polling personnell before going into the booth?

In that case, I would think that the perp who stole the Milwaukee woman's vote would be fearful of potentially doing hard time!
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And it took me less than that to think that not every blind or visually impaired person knows braille.

Then there is the topic of why are you excluding people that do not know braille. How about forcing the entire population to know some arbitrary concept in order to vote? Is the government prepared to teach people braille, have people at voter locations that can provide braille support, and how are they going to actually do the voting process - by answering their vote in braille?

I digress. Too many issues will arise based upon this decision.

Obviously, you bypassed the funding part of the question. There exists technology to assist people in order to vote independently, but it requires a great deal of money. You are asking people typical of fixed income to take public transportation, which may require several hours, rely on technology that may or may not exist at their voting location and may not work correctly, in order to appease you.

I work as a consultant with people that have disabilities, and I realize that you accounted for physical disabilities in one of your posts, but most have no clue as to what they are wanting/demanding take place.

Requiring thumb prints on ballots would take away the privacy of the voter. This goes against the entire voting process, could endanger lives, and removes government by the people and replaces it with government by John Smith, Jane Doe, etc.

No thanks. Maybe that kind of thinking should stay in the theocracies, dictatorships, and other 3rd world countries.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: CivicFan

Well, the proof of citizenship is required when you register to vote.

The Courts have no interest in assuring that only citizens vote:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/552027/201010281910/War-On-Citizenship.aspx


I don't know if the article is very deceptive or you are missing the point, but voting and registering to vote are very different transactions.

To be able to register to vote, you have to prove that you are a US citizen.

Once you are registered, requiring to prove that you are a citizen is redundant and is actually a barrier to vote (not everyone carries their passport or birth certificate with them at all times). Proof of identity is all you need to make sure that the person voting is the person that is registered.
 
Originally Posted By: Anies
Just a good read from Wiki on Voter Turnout and how other countries handle voting(Compulsory voting!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

I found it fascinating that Bolivia will withhold bank withdrawals for 3 months against a non voter.


In Cyprus you can get fined for not voting.
 
Perhaps we need to make the standard for election getting 51% of registered voters. So if a candidate cannot inspire enough folks to simply vote, no one is elected.

If 30something percent of the registered voters vote, then no-one is getting elected until a candidate can inspire more confidence in the electorate.

After all, it's not like either party is really doing me any good, so having an office vacant is unlikely to adversely impact me, and may do us all some good
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Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I do not believe that proof of citizenship is not required.

Maybe not during the voting process, but definitely when you register. Once you register, having a valid ID with your voting identification make sense.

I do not believe that most US citizen have citizenship proof with them on the day they go to vote (i.e. passport, birth certificate). Checking those as a mean to discourage voting makes no sense to me at best, and flat out trying to deny some voters' right at worst.


You are wrong. The court struck down the requirement to prove citizenship WHEN REGISTERING to vote.

Read the first two paragraphs of the story below.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/26/court-strikes-ariz-law-requiring-voters-prove-citizens/


Proposition 200 mentioned in the article is about Payday Loans.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: CivicFan

Well, the proof of citizenship is required when you register to vote.

The Courts have no interest in assuring that only citizens vote:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/552027/201010281910/War-On-Citizenship.aspx


I don't know if the article is very deceptive or you are missing the point, but voting and registering to vote are very different transactions.

To be able to register to vote, you have to prove that you are a US citizen.

Once you are registered, requiring to prove that you are a citizen is redundant and is actually a barrier to vote (not everyone carries their passport or birth certificate with them at all times). Proof of identity is all you need to make sure that the person voting is the person that is registered.


But not all places require ID, so someone who knows my name, age and address can show up in my polling place and vote in my name. Oh, they would have to learn my signature as well.

Groups have actually lobbied to prevent voter ID from happening, claiming folks will be disenfranchised by such a process. The claim is it will hurt the poor and elderly who are less likely to have a government issued ID for a variety of reasons.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: CivicFan

Well, the proof of citizenship is required when you register to vote.

The Courts have no interest in assuring that only citizens vote:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/552027/201010281910/War-On-Citizenship.aspx


I don't know if the article is very deceptive or you are missing the point, but voting and registering to vote are very different transactions.

To be able to register to vote, you have to prove that you are a US citizen.

Once you are registered, requiring to prove that you are a citizen is redundant and is actually a barrier to vote (not everyone carries their passport or birth certificate with them at all times). Proof of identity is all you need to make sure that the person voting is the person that is registered.


But not all places require ID, so someone who knows my name, age and address can show up in my polling place and vote in my name. Oh, they would have to learn my signature as well.

Groups have actually lobbied to prevent voter ID from happening, claiming folks will be disenfranchised by such a process. The claim is it will hurt the poor and elderly who are less likely to have a government issued ID for a variety of reasons.


I have seen the argument against the ID requirement and some of it makes sense. The National Voter Registration Act clearly says that it is the right of each citizen to vote and ID requirements can be a barrier to that right. So the voter ID laws have to have ways to make sure that all citizens willing to vote can indeed vote.

As far as the fox news article, beyond the sloppy interpretation of the issue, they should have looked at the federal law, National Voter Registration Act, which clearly states in a few places that citizenship is a requirement for registering to vote.
 
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_3c62e42a-fbe9-53ce-a58a-34c6e611ab52.html

"10/27/2010 - A federal appeals court on Tuesday threw out a state mandate for people to provide proof of citizenship before they can register to vote.

In a divided decision, two members of the three-judge 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel found the requirement, approved by Arizona voters in 2004, violates the federal National Voter Registration Act, which spells out what states can and cannot require to vote in federal elections.

Judge Sandra Ikuta, writing the majority decision, concluded the requirement to produce one of a list of specified documents proving citizenship is not allowed.

That conclusion drew derision from Secretary of State Ken Bennett who oversees elections. He said the proof is necessary to protect the integrity of elections. He compared the ruling to allowing people going through airports unchecked, as long as they sign a certificate vowing they are not terrorists and aren't carrying explosives. He plans to appeal."
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan

To be able to register to vote, you have to prove that you are a US citizen.

Did you read a link to the AK voter registration form that I posted?
All you have to do is to SAY that you are a US citizen, without providing any proof. If someone breaks the law in the first palce by jumping over the border fence, you think they won't lie if they want to vote?????
 
Mike, I will respond with a just a few simple points:

1. Voting will ALWAYS require volition and effort on the part of the citizen. Further, the volition and effort required WILL VARY from person to person. This is an obvious fact-of-voting.

2. Citizens who want to vote should have their civil rights protected from crooks.

3. There will ALWAYS be some barrier to voting, at some level. Some blind people do not read Braille, and some not-blind people do not read in any language and do not understand English, Spanish, French, or Hmong. But there is THIS in RI, and THIS in Wisconsin, for example.

5. If Afghanis can have ink for their thumbs, we can have ink for ours. Funding is a non-issue when it comes to voting in person.

7. In Wisconsin in the last election, there were more than 5,000 confirmed fraudulent votes cast, with many more questionable, in Milwaukee County alone(One Example of This). That means that there are more than 5,000 legal registered voters in Milwaukee County whose votes didn't count because they were stolen or canceled by a crook. Don't you care about THOSE people?

8. The privacy that voters have is only conditional. With inked thumbs, privacy would remain conditional.
 
I voted early to avoid the Election Day lines. Plus, I had the time and decided to get r done.

I looked at that link for Wisconsin voter fraud and it looks like a case of fraudulent voter registration but I didn't see anywhere in it that it says actual votes were cast fraudulently.

I prefer a saner view of the smokescreen that is voter fraud: http://www.slate.com/id/2272405/
 
The link I posted above is a case where a couple of guys actually got caught.

Have a look at this, if you dare (it is certainly scary enough for Halloween):

Report of the Investigation Into the November 2, 2004 General Election in the City of Milwaukee

Maybe many of you live in communities that are not in such disarray. But don't be apathetic, even for a minute. The report only presents fraud that was DISCOVERED and PROVEN to have occured.

hillclimber: Are you located in Harris County ?

P.S. What were you saying about a "saner view"?
 
Originally Posted By: bigmike
When you all that agree with this line of thinking fund a way for visually impaired to vote independently, let us know! Then I might be on board for forced physical location voting.


We are not talking about disabled people, military people, etc... We are talking your average person who could make it to the polls.
 
Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
The link I posted above is a case where a couple of guys actually got caught.

Have a look at this, if you dare (it is certainly scary enough for Halloween):

Report of the Investigation Into the November 2, 2004 General Election in the City of Milwaukee

Maybe many of you live in communities that are not in such disarray. But don't be apathetic, even for a minute. The report only presents fraud that was DISCOVERED and PROVEN to have occured.

hillclimber: Are you located in Harris County ?

P.S. What were you saying about a "saner view"?


What was I saying about a saner view? As in rational and reasonable, not an overblown, ideological, overreaction to a minor, but not to be ignored, problem. Here's only the latest: http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/arc...se-kellys-story

Wow, "actual rumors" of Mexicans being bussed over, fed, allowed to cast votes, and then sent home. Hilarious.

And no, I'm not in Harris County. If I was, it would apparently be my duty as a god-fearing, white, self-appointed patriot to go keep my eye on the african-americans as they vote: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7253109.html

I welcome the day we see minority poll watchers at my local polling place, if only to see my neighbors blow their tops.

As to the Milwaukee report, all 60-odd pages of it, it looks to me like there are many clerical and record-keeping errors in Milwaukee. But I don't see, and maybe I missed the smoking gun, reports of people who shouldn't be voting actually casting ballots, or people casting ballots more than once.
 
Originally Posted By: hillclimber

overblown, ideological, overreaction to a minor, but not to be ignored, problem.
white, self-appointed patriot to go keep my eye on the african-americans as they vote:


Voting fraud is real. In my eyes, ANY fraud is bad and warrants immediate investigation.

Let's see, we got SEIU running the machines and ACORN recruiting off the streets and Black Panthers outside the polls with clubs to keep order.

Relax, it's all just overblown!
 
I always vote in person. Gives me a chance to visit with the older folks manning the poling stations and to get that FREE cup of coffee.

Besides, it gives me the chance to use the skills I learned back in first grade of coloring in the dots.
 
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