I hate "intermittents."

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And at the moment I'm not to fond of dealer techs. At least not the ones that always seem to touch my vehicles, I know there are some great ones out there.

Just sharing this experience since I know there are some other WK2 owners out there, really. My wife's 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) went in about 4 months ago for the dreaded TIPM fuel pump relay failure recall. The relay had actually failed a long time ago, but I'd implemented the Vertical Visions hack to keep the car driveable (in a nutshell, power the fuel pump from the switched 12V fuse for the power outlets). The recall "fix" isn't a lot more elegant- they just splice in a big honkin old-style general purpose relay external to the TIPM (you can see the text of the Star Case which evolved into the actual recall here)

After getting the actual recall done, there were no issues... for a whole 4 months until the fuel pump started getting intermittent again. This really hacked me off- I'd have been irritated enough if it were my car, but when it strands my wife and (worse) stalls in rush hour with her, I get really annoyed. Every time it would happen, it would be working again by the time I got there. I chased a few dead ends, even for a while deciding that the line driver in the PCM that pulls-down to provide ground when the engine is running and then lets the ground of the relay float high if the engine stalls (safety feature) was the problem.

By a bit of good luck and by tracing back all the wiring that the dealership would have had to touch to perform the recall, I found that if I wiggled the relay feed from the TIPM brown connector C5, I could get the test light to flicker off. Aha.

When I removed the connector, there were no bad crimps or connections. FINALLY, when I looked at the front face of the connector where the female contact insert is plugged in, something looked "different" from all the other pins. So I pulled the insert out of the connector block and found what's pictured below. I think the dealer tech dug it out with a claw hammer, rather than carefully pressing the release tab (remember that pink wire is 20-gauge- smaller than a toothpick). The tool marks give it away, and the internal spring was collapsed flat so the contact was loose. I bent it back into the correct shape, and all has been well. I do need to find out the part # for that pin and just replace it with a brand new one, though. If anyone has access to it, PM me. TIPM Connector C5 (brown), pin 38.

2839D9B3-057B-4708-AE11-08A36D04A2F3_zps2gargyll.jpg
 
It's insane that as recently as the 2011 model year Chrysler still hadn't figured out how to make a reliable fuel pump relay...

Turning a $5 part that your mother could swap out, into a non-user-serviceable $1100 assembly? Priceless.
 
Relays are a way to switch battery power using a smaller draw to switch it. A relay hack is probably the safer of the two. How about just dropping a blob of solder into the boogered up connection?
 
Bubba- what's insane is that they USED to use nice, socketed, heavy relays. Of course those last the life of the car- put 250,000 miles on our 93 LH and never had one of the relays actually go bad. Not even the ones controlling the electric fans that were switching 20+amps of current. Sometime around 2006 is when they (and several other manufacturers that use the same TIPM vendor) started using small relays on the board.

Andyd- this s the low-current signal that controls the relay, not the high-current feed to the fuel pump. A blob of solder wouldn't have the "springiness" to stay in contact, would be my fear. Or it would bottom out and keep the connector from seating fully, making the other pins in the connector get intermittent and flaky.
 
With CAD the engineers can engineer out any value us mindless consumers receive.
 
Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
It's insane that as recently as the 2011 model year Chrysler still hadn't figured out how to make a reliable fuel pump relay...

Turning a $5 part that your mother could swap out, into a non-user-serviceable $1100 assembly? Priceless.

That why Chrysler's vehicles are among the worst reliable according the Consumer Report and other sources.

You never see anything like this in a Honda or Toyota. They keep using similar reliable parts from on generation to the next, they didn't try to reinvent the wheel.
 
I have been hearing about people having the fuel pump burn out for years,Usually right after the warranty stops.All makes and models,And they aint cheap.
Actually Hondas and Toyotas have had their share of problems and recalls lately.
 
Of all the nearly 100 ins and outputs on a computer you'd think they'd have redundant pins for the most important stuff. Jeez, look at stuff like a digital camera battery charger that has two contacts per terminal.

25 years ago, GMs ran the fuel pumps off

1) a relay that was computer controlled and
2) the oil pressure switch. If the relay died you could crank the engine until oil pressure came up and off you went.

I also read somewhere that the terminal spring pressure on OE terminal mega-packs was an important consideration as you had some schmuck on the assembly line who'd get carpal tunnel jamming them together all day every day if they were "too stiff". Makes me appreciate the little bolt in the middle that draws them together.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I think the dealer tech dug it out with a claw hammer, rather than carefully pressing the release tab (remember that pink wire is 20-gauge- smaller than a toothpick).The tool marks give it away, and the internal spring was collapsed flat so the contact was loose. I bent it back into the correct shape, and all has been well.


I gotta hand it to you for keeping your cool. I would've been flaming mad. They make special tools for pulling out the connector pins.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR


You never see anything like this in a Honda or Toyota. They keep using similar reliable parts from on generation to the next, they didn't try to reinvent the wheel.


Y'all can blame it on Chrysler all you want (and ultimately like the captain of a ship being responsible even though the ensign at the wheel ran it aground, there's culpability there), but you're still wrong. Its a third-party vendor who makes the TIPM, and they supply them globally. Honduhs and Yotas aren't immune, just like everybody got hit by Takata airbags.
 
I've a late 80's dodge whose ECM connectors have been problematic. Most issues arose from techs piercing the insulation near the connector for testing.

Eventually the solder connections on the circuit board broke where the pins mated with it.

Fortunately opening up the ECM, removing the silicone potting and reflowing and adding more solder was relatively easy, but I was reluctant to do so as my soldering skills were less developed.

Before this, Intermittent and random stalling was a huge and dangerous inconvenience. Wiggling the connector and a plethora of Zip ties to hold the wire bundle in such a manner was required, and often I was on the side of the road adjusting the pressure of the Zip ties, and a few times stuck with my flashers on still in lanes of traffic.

In the course of this issue, I'd found all the pin/socket connectors, everywhere were heavily oxidized, despite being encased in dielectric grease their whole life.

I went a bit nutty with Caig Deoxit d5 spray and precision swabs to clean the connectors of all sensors and every connector I could find. I used Caig gold or Caig shield to protect the connections, and Dielectric grease was pushed into the connector only after it was reseated to prevent moisture intrusion.

After the day long contact cleaning event, the vehicle felt like it lost 500 Lbs of weight and some MPG was restored that I had blamed solely on new slightly larger tires.
 
Now that you found your intermittent fault, can you find the intermittent fault on my ZJ
wink.gif


No idle when the engine is cold or if its nice weather outside.
I have to hold the foot on the gas to keep it alive.
Then i have to do that untill the tempgauge reads about 60c and then i can start to slowly let of the gas and then it will idle.

If it rains outside then it will idle fine with a cold engine.
When i drive to work and let it sit for 10-12hours i dont have any idle when i start it.
But if i go out and start it for a few seconds and then stops the engine, it will idle fine when its time to go home a few hours later..

Its just a bit annoying....
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR


You never see anything like this in a Honda or Toyota. They keep using similar reliable parts from on generation to the next, they didn't try to reinvent the wheel.


Y'all can blame it on Chrysler all you want (and ultimately like the captain of a ship being responsible even though the ensign at the wheel ran it aground, there's culpability there), but you're still wrong. Its a third-party vendor who makes the TIPM, and they supply them globally. Honduhs and Yotas aren't immune, just like everybody got hit by Takata airbags.Right on. Thanks for your support. I've been blaming Chrysler since 1965 for the 66 Dart I special ordered. Hamtramck assembled junk.
 
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
440 Magnum you'll probably find that connector socket here. But they sell in bulk.


Oh, I'm SURE Digikey has it... But hunting without a part number is a little daunting, to say the least :-/

The auto parts store had a Packard Electric insert that's very close and would work in a pinch, but I'd rather get the real deal. Probably will have to look for a manufacturer on the connector shell somewhere, then poke around for their inserts in 20-gauge wire size. I still torques me off that the service manual hasn't been made public for the 2011 models yet. Just another way the manfuacturers are trying to treat vehicles like "intellectual property" that the owner just licenses for use. :-/
 
I just got done chasing one down on my Cherokee that I had caused. The electric fan would randomly turn on. Apparently some of the insulation on my wire had started to pull off the wiring to the switch I added. Causing it to ground against part of the support for the trim panel.


Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
It's insane that as recently as the 2011 model year Chrysler still hadn't figured out how to make a reliable fuel pump relay...

Turning a $5 part that your mother could swap out, into a non-user-serviceable $1100 assembly? Priceless.

That why Chrysler's vehicles are among the worst reliable according the Consumer Report and other sources.

You never see anything like this in a Honda or Toyota. They keep using similar reliable parts from on generation to the next, they didn't try to reinvent the wheel.


Chrysler has made some pretty bad vehicles. And the fact that they keep using this fault TIPM garbage on all of their models ... baffles me. Went through two on our JK! Sentry system was the first one to go. That wasn't fun.

Honda had relay issues for a while. There was one mounted under the dash, for the fuel pump, I believe, that would cause the car to not run under certain conditions when it had a crack that would open up.
 
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