I found this interesting, regarding the cold...........

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y_p_w said:
I thought the Highland was slated for a rear touchscreen. That would be nice but I'm not sure what the ergonomics will be like. In the back of the center console might be awkward, and I don't think they can drop it from the roof unless they abandon the one-piece glass.
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I think it does. I thought about clarifying that with my post, but I don't remember if that was the case. So far I don't think there's been many if at all any Highland deliveries in the US and if they have I'm guessing they haven't made it to being cabs yet.

It's still got to be better than not having access to the seat warmer controls either way.
 
gfh77665 said:
Thats laughable. Its ALL over the media. Even the Houston TV news all had the stories.

ICE owners with old batteries? Seriously? 30 min. at WalMart, or DIY for 15 min. and you are good for 5+ years. No "conditioning" required. Zero comparison to all the EV woes.

Here is USA Today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ry-charging-station-cold-chicago/72252874007/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...r-not-charging-ev-infrastructure/72256166007/
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/new...left-stranded-as-stations-freeze/72257954007/
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I don't know who you're trying to convince but EV owners don't care about the BS you're stirring. All of the other anti EV people already agree with you. One at least here is even terrified to park next to an EV. The irrational hate is odd. You can save yourself from the horrors of EVs by not buying them and then ignoring them altogether.

Novel concept, I know.
 
gfh77665 said:
If you don't think EV's took a big black eye this week, more power (LOL) to ya'!
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Agree, as the weaknesses of EVs come to light and educate the public at large. The public will someday make more intelligent buying decisions and understand that EVs are cannot be used as universally as ICE vehicles.

This almost reminds me, but on a smaller scale that people who buy or bought solar panels believed they would have power during a blackout. They didnt know the panels would not provide power to the house if the electric grid was down, then some bad power outages got the word out and people were upset not knowing that without super expensive battery back up systems their solar panels do not work during power blackouts.
 
BMWTurboDzl said:
Again. As I said, ICE owners with dead batteries isn't a news story but we all know it happens and happens a lot with cold snaps.
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30 min. at WalMart or 15 min. DIY and you are good to go for 5 years+.
Or, you can install a new one preemptively while battery is still functioning but getting old, before cold arrives.
Even if it happens, a friend or passerby with jumper cables can get you on your way in 5 min.
Can't do any of that with EV's.
Again.
 
gfh77665 said:
30 min. at WalMart or 15 min. DIY and you are good to go for 5 years+.
Or, you can install a new one preemptively while battery is still functioning but getting old, before cold arrives.
Even if it happens, a friend or passerby with jumper cables can get you on your way in 5 min.
Can't do any of that with EV's.
Again.
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Agree,
A car battery in an Ice Vehicle is a maintenance item.

A brand new EV that wont move in the cold whether or greatly diminished range is more like an Ice vehicle with a hole in the gas tank. The EV battery is not a standard maintenance item, it's the "Gas Tank" unable to supply energy to the motor. BIG problem in cold weather and possibly really hot weather.
 
Astro14 said:
I think the reason it’s all over the media, is that owners failed to understand, exactly, the capabilities and limitations of the car they purchased under adverse conditions.

We are a group of car guys, and to us, the capabilities and limitations are an area of active interest. So naturally, we don’t enter into big decisions, like the purchase of an automobile, without detailed research, and careful understanding of exactly what it is that we’re buying. At least most of us don’t…

But, folks, I have news for you; the rest of the world ain’t like us!

I mean, let’s be honest, a lot of people buy cars on the basis of emotion. They don’t really understand what they’re getting into. They haven’t really analyzed all the pros and cons, or read through the detailed literature. How many of them have ever, ever, opened the owners manual on a car they bought?

Now, these ordinary owners, are caught by surprise. They didn’t know that this would happen in the cold. They call up their friends, it becomes “buzz“, they call up their friends in the media, and start complaining. And so the media thinks “hey, here’s a story!”

But I would argue that: it is less a story of the failure of EV and more a story of the failure of owners to understand what they were buying.

and either way, the news media is not here to accurately report the fax, they are here to generate your interest, and if they can do it with a sensational twist, then they will twist it in order to gain your interest.

They exist to get you to tune in, open up, or click.
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But you're trying to be the voice of reason and not projecting an agenda either way.

Preparation is obviously huge. I've done a fair bit of hiking or backpacking over the years, and there are a lot of people who don't understand the limitations of their equipment or even themselves and get in trouble. Some have died in poor weather conditions from hypothermia that could have been prevented with better choices in clothing.

You obviously come from a background where you have to study up on the full capabilities of your equipment and demonstrate that you know it inside and out. But my dad got his Model 3 and wants it to be like an appliance, but then he calls me up asking how this or that works. Fortunately for him, he doesn't take it on long trips and lives in a temperature climate. I'm not sure if he could handle cold weather.

And here - weather is a huge problem because there are people who live in a temperate climate but then drive up to Tahoe/Reno/Yosemite in the winter without proper preparation or equipment. But even then it sometimes gets sensationalized when there's a long line of stuck cars and drivers who went off the road, even though it happens pretty much every year.
 
It has taken a hit. But it also illustrates the ignorance of many EV buyers. On a news show last evening, titled, "EVs Having Difficulty This Winter", a gentleman interviewed while he was sitting in line waiting for a spot at a charging station during a white-out somewhere, said...."If i would have known this car suffered range depletion during the cold, i wouldn't have bought it."

I believe there's a lot of this going on.
 
alarmguy said:
Agree, as the weaknesses of EVs come to light and educate the public at large. The public will someday make more intelligent buying decisions and understand that EVs are cannot be used as universally as ICE vehicles.

This almost reminds me, but on a smaller scale that people who buy or bought solar panels believed they would have power during a blackout. They didnt know the panels would not provide power to the house if the electric grid was down, then some bad power outages got the word out and people were upset not knowing that without super expensive battery back up systems their solar panels do not work during power blackouts.
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Weaknesses of EVs coming to light.

Cute. The comment below probably fits this situation too.
gfh77665 said:
30 min. at WalMart or 15 min. DIY and you are good to go for 5 years+.
Or, you can install a new one preemptively while battery is still functioning but getting old, before cold arrives.
Even if it happens, a friend or passerby with jumper cables can get you on your way in 5 min.
Can't do any of that with EV's.
Again.
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There's a difference between a dead battery and a depleted battery. You know that, but you choose to post stuff like this instead. Dead EVs is no different than the people that drive until they run out of fuel, but as posted by some earlier the average buyer of any vehicle doesn't understand how they work and then just gets mad when they don't, not understanding their own actions are the problem. You can complain all you want about EVs, but you're on this site so you obviously take a vested interest in taking care of your vehicles. You're not the average car person that would be dumb enough to end up in this situation if you had an EV. You know this is true and I have no problem with the fact that you don't want an EV. I have a problem with the absolute stupid arguments that come out of it, being obtuse just to have something to argue about.

If the low voltage battery is dead, that can be jumped. I'd stick with a jump box for that feature though.

As far as anyone else's comments in such a dumb fashion, you're all on the wrong site if you can't admit to yourself that you'd be taking the utmost care of your vehicles if you did want an EV. This posturing dragging of backsides across the living room carpet is embarrassing.
 
Torrid said:
I think it does. I thought about clarifying that with my post, but I don't remember if that was the case. So far I don't think there's been many if at all any Highland deliveries in the US and if they have I'm guessing they haven't made it to being cabs yet.

It's still got to be better than not having access to the seat warmer controls either way.
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I was thinking maybe airline seat style, but how much would that cost? I do remember sitting in first class once (yes it was awesome) where we had a video screen (but not a touchscreen in the mid-90s) that pulled out from the armrest. I've also had that when sitting in a bulkhead row.
 
y_p_w said:
I was thinking maybe airline seat style, but how much would that cost? I do remember sitting in first class once (yes it was awesome) where we had a video screen (but not a touchscreen in the mid-90s) that pulled out from the armrest. I've also had that when sitting in a bulkhead row.
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I don't think the car is wide enough to do that and retain 3 wide seating. They should have just put a button on the door, though even the middle section is heated.
 
Torrid said:
I don't think the car is wide enough to do that and retain 3 wide seating. They should have just put a button on the door, though even the middle section is heated.
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I was thinking a touchscreen since there's a lot more than just the heated seats. Also for entertainment.

What might work would be guest access on the Tesla app for rear controls.
 
ZZman said:
https://fortune.com/2024/01/17/why-...les-charge-in-cold-chicago-battery-elon-musk/
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Yes, but do this once and the car tells you on the screen how to actually do it. I will say though that the first time will be a pain if you're not used to it in extreme cold, because it won't say anything until you plug it in. It doesn't know what you're trying to do until you tell it, so plugging into a Supercharger without routing to it won't tell it to precondition. If I'm driving a route I know I don't like using GPS, but if it's a longer trip in the Tesla, I keep it going in the background if I need to charge during the trip. I shut the audio prompts off anyway, but it's a step I don't make in my other car. If it's a trip I've not taken before it's a non issue because I'm using the GPS and the car will tell me where to charge when needed along the way anyway.

This isn't your best road trip car anyway and people looking to buy them need to understand this. A couple times a year is no big deal, but if you take 1000 mile trips 12+ times a year, buy a fuel efficient vehicle. The EV won't save you money public charging. I can't drive my GTI as cheap as the Tesla, but I've had the Tesla going on 2 years and used public charging 5 times. I wouldn't have an EV if it wasn't used this way. I love the car, but I don't love it enough to pay for charging weekly to stop longer than fueling. Let's be realistic here. You'll run into EV wackos that don't have home charging that still swear by it and I'm glad they're happy with their situation. I wouldn't make the purchase if I was in their shoes, but if they're happy so be it.
 
ZZman said:
https://fortune.com/2024/01/17/why-...les-charge-in-cold-chicago-battery-elon-musk/
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I've tried explaining to my dad that navigating to a Tesla Superchargers is better in order to get the battery ready. However, he absolutely hates hearing any turn by turn navigation and always wants the radio off. He doesn't know how to turn the radio off or even adjust the volume (to zero). When we go out together, I end up driving for him a lot since he has difficulties with endurance at his age, but he can still drive for a a half hour or so. I've set navigation on his Model 3 to the lowest volume, but he still yells at me to turn it off if I know where we're going. There's no quiet mode for navigation.
 
y_p_w said:
I've tried explaining to my dad that navigating to a Tesla Superchargers is better in order to get the battery ready. However, he absolutely hates hearing any turn by turn navigation and always wants the radio off. He doesn't know how to turn the radio off or even adjust the volume (to zero). When we go out together, I end up driving for him a lot since he has difficulties with endurance at his age, but he can still drive for a a half hour or so. I've set navigation on his Model 3 to the lowest volume, but he still yells at me to turn it off if I know where we're going. There's no quiet mode for navigation.
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You just have to shut the turn by turn prompts off. I do this on every vehicle I've ever owned and Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. The easiest way to adjust the volume to zero is to turn the left steering wheel click wheel down.
 
Torrid said:
Yes, but do this once and the car tells you on the screen how to actually do it. I will say though that the first time will be a pain if you're not used to it in extreme cold, because it won't say anything until you plug it in. It doesn't know what you're trying to do until you tell it, so plugging into a Supercharger without routing to it won't tell it to precondition. If I'm driving a route I know I don't like using GPS, but if it's a longer trip in the Tesla, I keep it going in the background if I need to charge during the trip. I shut the audio prompts off anyway, but it's a step I don't make in my other car. If it's a trip I've not taken before it's a non issue because I'm using the GPS and the car will tell me where to charge when needed along the way anyway.

This isn't your best road trip car anyway and people looking to buy them need to understand this. A couple times a year is no big deal, but if you take 1000 mile trips 12+ times a year, buy a fuel efficient vehicle. The EV won't save you money public charging. I can't drive my GTI as cheap as the Tesla, but I've had the Tesla going on 2 years and used public charging 5 times. I wouldn't have an EV if it wasn't used this way. I love the car, but I don't love it enough to pay for charging weekly to stop longer than fueling. Let's be realistic here. You'll run into EV wackos that don't have home charging that still swear by it and I'm glad they're happy with their situation. I wouldn't make the purchase if I was in their shoes, but if they're happy so be it.
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I've noted that my dad in his Model 3 hates hearing the navigation turn by turn directions. Asks me to turn it off if possible, even when I tell him it's needed for better charging. He is very specific about hating the car "talking" to him.

A decent range EV can be acceptable as a road trip car - especially in warmer temperatures. A lot of drivers are finding out where free/complimetary charging is located, and even choosing hotels that have complimentary charging.

I've mentioned our trip up the Northern California coast in a Model 3 loaner. It was fine for a road trip as we saw quite a few other Tesla drivers at Superchargers, including with out of state plates. And it didn't hurt that Tesla covered all bridge tolls and Supercharger fees. It would have taken some more thinking though if we had to pay for it. I think some people navigate directly to Supercharger locations based on the cost. Around here, some are the same rate 24/7 but others have time of use rates. I've seen Supercharger locations just a few feet apart where the rates are different.
 
Torrid said:
You just have to shut the turn by turn prompts off. I do this on every vehicle I've ever owned and Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. The easiest way to adjust the volume to zero is to turn the left steering wheel click wheel down.
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When the radio came on, I tried telling him, but he's not very good at following directions over the phone.

The thing is, when I'm driving I want the navigation including turn by turn just in case I miss what's on the screen. But my dad just absolutely hates hearing it and can't ignore it.
 
y_p_w said:
When the radio came on, I tried telling him, but he's not very good at following directions over the phone.

The thing is, when I'm driving I want the navigation including turn by turn just in case I miss what's on the screen. But my dad just absolutely hates hearing it and can't ignore it.
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I understand that. I’m not a fan of the audio prompts either.
 
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