Hydrogen Powered Semi Trailers - lots of power
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To those who keep thinking that hydrogen will be produced from rooftop solar on the roofs of hydrogen refuelling stations.
Pick an average 1KWh per square metre per day (pretty typical), the roof of a 422MWh generation station would have to be 422,000 square metres, or 650m squared...a square, 0.4 miles each side...that's one BIG refilling station.
Pick an average 1KWh per square metre per day (pretty typical), the roof of a 422MWh generation station would have to be 422,000 square metres, or 650m squared...a square, 0.4 miles each side...that's one BIG refilling station.
60 years late.... http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_687671
Hydrogen interesting choice - you pay the penalty to crack it, and have to store and transport and use it as a fuel under high pressure
Then you pay another conversion penalty to change it back into electricity when you use it.
Wouldn't it be simpler to charge a big battery ?
UD
Then you pay another conversion penalty to change it back into electricity when you use it.
Wouldn't it be simpler to charge a big battery ?
UD
The tesla semi, by my calcs would have about 1.2MWh of battery storage..."refilling" 160 of those would be about 200MWh, so yes, your sense and sensibilities seem to be correct.
One of the observations that I've made, and it's silly is that as long as the electricity is "green", we can waste it doing stupid things.
One of the observations that I've made, and it's silly is that as long as the electricity is "green", we can waste it doing stupid things.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4799072/Budweiser's_New_800-fleet_H2_S
... and it's the Nikola H2 trucks Budweiser is buying.
Producing H2 is being worked on. OVERKILL had some good references in that last thread on it. Some sciencedaily.com references basically lays out some alternatives. Maybe, just maybe it could work.
... and it's the Nikola H2 trucks Budweiser is buying.
Producing H2 is being worked on. OVERKILL had some good references in that last thread on it. Some sciencedaily.com references basically lays out some alternatives. Maybe, just maybe it could work.
Power consumption can be very high at Tesla Supercharger stations in the U.S.
They average 8 stations, for a total power consumption approaching 1 MW, which is the power consumption of 40 homes with their air conditioners running and other stuff.
They average 8 stations, for a total power consumption approaching 1 MW, which is the power consumption of 40 homes with their air conditioners running and other stuff.
There's only one kind of green these companies are after, and it ain't a friggin tree.
Yeah, but it's all stupid. Methanol can be made green from organic by-products, or bought in from sugar cane producing countries, etc. It's renewable and liquid. Does not have the bad ju-ju of ethanol and can be a significant octane booster, so big rigs can run big displacement engines at high compression and get over the mountains w/o a sweat. There is no reason to try to make these things electric ... Maybe hybrid to keep them quiet in the city center ... But, on the open road, let them roar
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Hydrogen interesting choice - you pay the penalty to crack it, and have to store and transport and use it as a fuel under high pressure
Then you pay another conversion penalty to change it back into electricity when you use it.
Wouldn't it be simpler to charge a big battery ?
UD
Or burn the hydrogen inside a cylinder to produce heat and pressure?
You could call it...um...internal combustion.
Or in a gas turbine.
I suppose burning it in a hydrogen fuel cell must counter-intuitively be more efficient or they wouldn't do it. Can't see it working well in planes though, which is where most of my footprint comes from.
Hydrogen interesting choice - you pay the penalty to crack it, and have to store and transport and use it as a fuel under high pressure
Then you pay another conversion penalty to change it back into electricity when you use it.
Wouldn't it be simpler to charge a big battery ?
UD
Or burn the hydrogen inside a cylinder to produce heat and pressure?
You could call it...um...internal combustion.
Or in a gas turbine.
I suppose burning it in a hydrogen fuel cell must counter-intuitively be more efficient or they wouldn't do it. Can't see it working well in planes though, which is where most of my footprint comes from.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by Ducked
Originally Posted by Shannow
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
Electric dirigibles Looooool!!! "tally-ho Matilda, we'll be taking the blimp to London, pack a month's worth of supplies."
Originally Posted by Shannow
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
Electric dirigibles Looooool!!! "tally-ho Matilda, we'll be taking the blimp to London, pack a month's worth of supplies."
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ducked
Originally Posted by Shannow
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
Electric dirigibles Looooool!!! "tally-ho Matilda, we'll be taking the blimp to London, pack a month's worth of supplies."
Skunkworks did studies on a hydrogen powered U2 replacement, looked quite like the Blackbird.
IIRC they dropped it because the (real) advantages over kerosene didn't justify the logistical hassle of setting up the fuel supply system.
So that works.
Going electric I suppose you'd get something like a Super Constellation, only quieter. Dunno about range but someone probably does.
Originally Posted by Ducked
Originally Posted by Shannow
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
Electric dirigibles Looooool!!! "tally-ho Matilda, we'll be taking the blimp to London, pack a month's worth of supplies."
Skunkworks did studies on a hydrogen powered U2 replacement, looked quite like the Blackbird.
IIRC they dropped it because the (real) advantages over kerosene didn't justify the logistical hassle of setting up the fuel supply system.
So that works.
Going electric I suppose you'd get something like a Super Constellation, only quieter. Dunno about range but someone probably does.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by Ducked
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ducked
Originally Posted by Shannow
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
Electric dirigibles Looooool!!! "tally-ho Matilda, we'll be taking the blimp to London, pack a month's worth of supplies."
Skunkworks did studies on a hydrogen powered U2 replacement, looked quite like the Blackbird.
IIRC they dropped it because the (real) advantages over kerosene didn't justify the logistical hassle of setting up the fuel supply system.
So that works.
Going electric I suppose you'd get something like a Super Constellation, only quieter. Dunno about range but someone probably does.
That would have been interesting.
I was thinking more like the C-130 but yeah. Still not really viable though given the weight of batteries and the lack of range for something that size.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ducked
Originally Posted by Shannow
Fuel cells aren't constrained by the Carnot efficiencies that thermodynamic cycles must live under.
Generate power at 35-40%, turn it into hydrogen through electrolysis, then burn it at 30%...woeful idea.
Might not have a choice with an airliner, though there are a lot of electric drones around...back to the long haul prop plane?
Electric dirigibles Looooool!!! "tally-ho Matilda, we'll be taking the blimp to London, pack a month's worth of supplies."
Skunkworks did studies on a hydrogen powered U2 replacement, looked quite like the Blackbird.
IIRC they dropped it because the (real) advantages over kerosene didn't justify the logistical hassle of setting up the fuel supply system.
So that works.
Going electric I suppose you'd get something like a Super Constellation, only quieter. Dunno about range but someone probably does.
That would have been interesting.
I was thinking more like the C-130 but yeah. Still not really viable though given the weight of batteries and the lack of range for something that size.
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