Hybrid fobia is marginalized

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Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: [email protected]
They base all of their "problems" with hybrids off of FUD.


You should probably explain to the class what "FUD" stands for.


For sure!

FUD= Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. If you are heavy into politics, you are no stranger to FUD.

Unfortunately, FUD knows no boundaries. Anything to "scare" the masses (Eg: Y2K, death panels with obamacare, hybrid batteries, gas prices going to be $6 by summer, the mayan calendar, etc) will work just fine to people who cant think outside of the box and believe anything they hear, even if what they hear has no merit whatsoever.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FearUncertaintyAndDoubt

FUD Definition WIKI
 
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Originally Posted By: [email protected]
rjundi said:
I have to ask: When did you last drive a Prius and for how long? I ask because most (not saying this applies to you) people havent ever driven one but feel free to make assertions based on FUD.


Rental car last summer. 800 miles. Comfortable, boring, excellent MPG. Driven them over the years from 2006-present every so often. Just not for me. IMHO excellent car to be riding in but not driving.
Click to expand...
 
If I lived in a warmer climate and in a large city I would own one, it only makes sense to me. I would buy it used one so that someone else could take the depreciation hit, but I would still probably have one.
 
It is sad that the greenies don't seem to see the spin being used to shape the public acceptance of hybrids and electrics. No matter what you say, if you are not in complete agreement you are labeled.

Seems that knife cuts both ways to me.

FUD is a regularly used tool by both the Left and the Right. No favoritism here, just facts.

I also agree that the market should never be subsidized. Our government has tried many times to pick a winner and generally fails due to political cronyism.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
The California Air Resources Board approved $27 million for its Air Quality Improvement Program, a statewide effort to provide incentives for the purchase of advanced-technology passenger cars and heavy-duty trucks.

ARB will use the majority of those funds for its California Clean Vehicle Rebate Project to provide incentives for the purchase of zero-emission and plug-in hybrid passenger cars. Complementing this investment will be up to an additional $5 million dollars from the California Energy Commission.

There will also be an additional $10 million in incentives for hybrid and zero-emission trucks and buses. Another $2 million of funding will be used for advanced-technology demonstration projects supporting the commercialization of new vehicle and equipment technologies.

Since this program began in 2008 there have been more than 7,500 passenger cars and more than a thousand trucks or buses that have received incentives through the Air Quality Improvement Program.

The program is designed to accelerate the number of ultra-clean vehicles sold in California and help establish a sustainable market. The program also supports the Advanced Clean Car regulation ARB adopted earlier this year. (Earlier post.) That regulatory package builds on California’s already tough standards to reduce smog-forming and greenhouse gas emissions, including a separate requirement that one in seven new cars sold in 2025 in California be zero emission.

Information on the rebate project, including an application and required documents, list of eligible vehicles, and real-time funding status is available at www.cvrp.energycenter.org.

The vehicle rebate project is one of several consumer incentives funded under California Alternative and Renewable Fuel, Vehicle Technology, Clean Air, and Carbon Reduction Act of 2007 (AB 118).

The Air Quality Improvement Program (AQIP) is a voluntary incentive program created under that law, allowing up to $40 million per year, depending on revenues, through 2015 for ARB to fund advanced technologies needed to meet long-term air quality and climate change goals.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/06/arb-20120629.html

So the fact that these cars are selling better in a state with additional subsidies is proof that hybrids are gaining more public acceptance?

Nice logic there.

The only true way to tell how popular and valuable these cars are to the public is to allow the consumer to pay full value of the labor/material/energy that it took to bring them to market.
Subsidies necessarily short circuit this resource utilization feedback.


The rebates are for the plug in hybrids which represent a very small percentage of the Prius models sold.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It is sad that the greenies don't seem to see the spin being used to shape the public acceptance of hybrids and electrics. No matter what you say, if you are not in complete agreement you are labeled.

Seems that knife cuts both ways to me.

FUD is a regularly used tool by both the Left and the Right. No favoritism here, just facts.

I also agree that the market should never be subsidized. Our government has tried many times to pick a winner and generally fails due to political cronyism.


No the spin is really on the hybrid vehicle owner. We are instantly labeled "greenies" or homosexuals, or people who are smug and arrogant. I bought my hybrid used but Ive gotten several rude comments from my conservative friends and relatives that its an "Obama car". Really? Because you know, like I even get a tax rebate on a USED hybrid #1, an #2 those tax rebates have been around for a looooong time before our current POTUS and #3 my purchase had NOTHING to do with any political reason- it had to do with my pocketbook.

I dont judge anybody on if they like hybrids or not, how could I? I have a boat and a Ford Escape. I use all my power off the grid. Im far from a tree hugging hippie. Just dont go blabbing stuff that you've heard that has NO basis whatsoever.

BUT what is funny is the mindset progression from the people who hate hybrid vehicles with complete ire, now that they see what they said 2-5-10 years ago never materialized, now its the people who drive the hybrids are the problem. Ahhh I get it. Grasping at straws, its called.
 
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Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister

The rebates are for the plug in hybrids which represent a very small percentage of the Prius models sold.

Interesting. This article has more information about the Prius sales in Cali., including:

Quote:
Overall, auto sales — including fleet sales — rose 25% in California last year, almost double the national growth rate of 13.4%, according to the state dealer group.

Japanese brands, rebounding from inventory and production problems caused by the Japanese earthquake in 2011, had the fastest growth. They now control 46.3% of the California auto market, up from 44.5% in 2011.

Most of that growth came at the expense of domestic brands, which saw their combined market share slide to 29.7% from 31.6%. The domestic car companies do much better nationally, where they control almost 45% of auto sales.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/23/business/la-fi-autos-prius-20130123

Also:
Quote:
California's gasoline prices are consistently among the highest in the nation.

So the payoff will be much shorter as well, making them more attractive.

There are a great many peculiarities in California regarding these cars.
 
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/07/business/la-fi-mo-wealthy-buy-prius-20120807

Prii are in fact being bought up in wealthy neighborhoods right alongside Mercedes and BMW. To say that they aren't a symbol of "green-ness" to a lot of folks is just not accurate. To say that all buyers are motivated this way is also not true.

The average buyer of a Volt is $175K.

articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/07/business/la-fi-mo-wealthy-buy-prius-20120807

New hybrids off the lot are not typically bought by the "common man".
 
Originally Posted By: [email protected]
Originally Posted By: The_Jake


Try riding in a Denali, Escalade or Navigator or Lexus SUV with air suspension. Those all ride really nice.


My Envoy did have factory GM air suspension. Albeit it was rear air...


Face it....an Envoy is not on the list. Please. Your SUV had rear air shocks not an active suspension. HUGE difference.
 
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Originally Posted By: [email protected]
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It is sad that the greenies don't seem to see the spin being used to shape the public acceptance of hybrids and electrics. No matter what you say, if you are not in complete agreement you are labeled.

Seems that knife cuts both ways to me.

FUD is a regularly used tool by both the Left and the Right. No favoritism here, just facts.

I also agree that the market should never be subsidized. Our government has tried many times to pick a winner and generally fails due to political cronyism.


No the spin is really on the hybrid vehicle owner. We are instantly labeled "greenies" or homosexuals, or people who are smug and arrogant. I bought my hybrid used but Ive gotten several rude comments from my conservative friends and relatives that its an "Obama car". Really? Because you know, like I even get a tax rebate on a USED hybrid #1, an #2 those tax rebates have been around for a looooong time before our current POTUS and #3 my purchase had NOTHING to do with any political reason- it had to do with my pocketbook.

I dont judge anybody on if they like hybrids or not, how could I? I have a boat and a Ford Escape. I use all my power off the grid. Im far from a tree hugging hippie. Just dont go blabbing stuff that you've heard that has NO basis whatsoever.

BUT what is funny is the mindset progression from the people who hate hybrid vehicles with complete ire, now that they see what they said 2-5-10 years ago never materialized, now its the people who drive the hybrids are the problem. Ahhh I get it. Grasping at straws, its called.


Hybrid owners also seem to have have a difficult time handling criticism.
 
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
How is hybrid-phobia marginalized if the looney-fringe state of California makes it the best-selling car within the state?
If I looked at car sales statistics in the state of Texas, I could probably safely conclude that hybrid-phobia is mainstream.

Amazing how threads on a vehicle far more advanced than most bring out the bigotry and ignorance.


That depends on what technology you compare them to. Hybrids really are not that advanced. In fact the auto industry lacks the ability to really mass produce an advanced vehicle. You can type the word bigot but that is simply your opinion that you are projecting on someone else. But then again they don't make cars in NZ anyway. But what is racially bigoted about someones automobile choice anyway??
 
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I've driven a company car Prius at work a few dozen times, logging several hundred miles on it. I don't like the way it drives at all. I am not anti-hybrid or anti-Prius at all. I realize not everyone who drives one is a tree-hugging hippy, despite the stigma and stereotype. I realize it's a practical, reliable (despite many people's unfounded fears of reliability) sometimes-economical vehicle. I WANTED to enjoy driving it, I really did. But it just didn't do it for me. Rear visibility is poor, it has lots of road noise, the steering wheel is awkwardly positioned. Acceleration from a stop is slow and laggy while the electric motor tries to handle everything on its own, until the gas engine kicks on and screams at 3k+ RPM the whole time.

I won't call anyone names or judge them for driving a Prius, but I wouldn't buy one. At least not until they sort those kinks out. Now, the Ford Escape Hybrid we also have at work, I can live with.
 
It's basically an econo-box type car made into an expensive car due to the technology included. To summarize this entire thread; it's not for everyone (as are all cars), it is about as reliable as any Toyota, it gets stellar fuel economy, and it makes a statement - which can vary.

There you go. It's a CAR and it shares many traits with other cars.

I'd give them all up for a personal aircraft and PA system that allowed those stuck in traffic to hear my cackling. If you live around here, driving is a miserable experience no matter what you drive.
 
A hybrid makes a lot of sense in California or any large metro area where traffic is insane, gas prices high, and much time is spent sitting. In mild weather, if the A/C is off the engine's off. Not burning gas while the car's stopped with zero hit on re-start thanks to fuel injection is a nice benefit. Having HOV lane benefits in some areas/states is another benefit.

Most folks around here who have hybrids either have insane commutes or do a lot of urban driving. In either case, the gas savings are substantial over most conventional cars. Whether they're substantial enough to pay off quickly is another issue.

Personally, my fuel-sipper has saved enough in gas to more than repay the $2500 purchase premium over the base version. 15 mpg more times a ton of miles adds up over a year.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest

New hybrids off the lot are not typically bought by the "common man".


I admit you got me here. Considering that I should not drive a junk car due to my "status" I considered Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, Lincoln, Infinity, but settled on my $21,000 Prius instead. LOL!
 
Something that most environmentalist folks don't like to talk about with regards to hybrids is the fact that more resources and raw materials and energy are used to produce the Prius as compared to the Corolla, and the two get very similar mpgs, and most other parameters are the same or very similar, and of course you can get a Corolla for a great deal vs the pricy Prius.
 
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Something that most environmentalist folks don't like to talk about with regards to hybrids is the fact that more resources and raw materials and energy are used to produce the Prius as compared to the Corolla, and the two get very similar mpgs, and most other parameters are the same or very similar, and of course you can get a Corolla for a great deal vs the pricy Prius.


Again, as Ive stated before, people like to rattle off "opinions" with no basis to their claims WHAT-soever. Lets dispel the myth that hybrids and raw resources first, thats real easy to get out of the way:

http://www.keenforgreen.com/b/hybrid-myths-and-facts
http://www.hybridcars.com/battery-toxicity/

Ok moving on to your claim about the Corolla being cheaper than the Prius while achieving "very similar" mpgs as you claim:
Not quite similar mileage:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=23549&id=23599

It IS cheaper though, as a new vehicle. However 2007 or so Prius go for anywhere from $10-14k these days. 2007 Corollas can go from $9-$12k. Not quite that "great deal" you claim.


Yawn. Im going to bed. These are too easy. Reply with something factual or at least challenging to dispel!
 
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
the fact that more resources and raw materials and energy are used to produce the Prius as compared to the Corolla, and the two get very similar mpgs, and most other parameters are the same or very similar, and of course you can get a Corolla for a great deal vs the pricy Prius.


Lets file those lies it in the same folder as the well-known study that Hummers are more environmentally friendly than Prius.

And that folder is labeled Big Oil propaganda. Interesting that people actually believe it.

BTW, where are all the Hummers these days? I don't see them driving around much.
 
Originally Posted By: [email protected]
Ive gotten several rude comments from my conservative friends and relatives that its an "Obama car".


crackmeup2.gif
I like that one!
 
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