HVAC Insiders- Daikin & Goodman

[Zee09]

THIS

I can't believe that Daikin is selling basic, packaged rooftop units with their name on it that come out of a Goodman factory.... Boggles my mind!




One thing that makes me shake my head is to ride/drive my multi-million dollar houses and see 3-4 Goodman condensing units sitting outside. Those two things do not compute!

That could be from all the hvac Dealers I know preach that all units are only good for 10 years.

Many people would figure go cheap because buying a top quality unit will only last 10 years too. Not me but that's the rhetoric the installers spout around here anyway

 

[csandste]

Had Goodman installed about five years ago with absolutely no problems but with the knowledge that any idiot could go down and buy Goodman equipment with absolutely no training or qualifications. Have used and trusted my HVAC guy for years so no regrets here.

 

[mr_boring]

If I get 15 years out of my Goodman unit I'll be quite happy. I'll also be shocked because I plan on selling this house when prices and interest rates are reasonable again.

The main selling point to me was this. If my Goodman dies after the warranty period I can buy another just like it for well under 2k and it'll be something I can install. If I'd bought (insert premium brand here) and it slopped off into the wild blue yonder after the warranty period it would cost me 4k to replace. The Goodman 14 seer cools just fine. So does the Lennox my neighbor has. I can buy 2 Goodman units that will probably last 25 years total for about what he paid for his Lennox which will almost certainly not last much more than 15.


Everything built today is considered to be disposable. It lasts as long as it lasts then you throw it away and buy a new one. They just aren't built like they used to be. The one I replaced was 23 years old. Builder grade 'junk'. I got 3 quotes on both fixing it and replacing it. I could have spent 2 grand for the overhaul it needed, 11-13 grand for a high end unit installed, or 6-8 grand for a cheap unit installed.

I paid a bit under 6 grand for the Goodman. I'm satisfied.

When you list a house, it says when the AC was replaced if that's fairly recent. If that's under 5 years, people are happy. They don't care what brand it is.

 

[Zee09]

If I get 15 years out of my Goodman unit I'll be quite happy. I'll also be shocked because I plan on selling this house when prices and interest rates are reasonable again.

The main selling point to me was this. If my Goodman dies after the warranty period I can buy another just like it for well under 2k and it'll be something I can install. If I'd bought (insert premium brand here) and it slopped off into the wild blue yonder after the warranty period it would cost me 4k to replace. The Goodman 14 seer cools just fine. So does the Lennox my neighbor has. I can buy 2 Goodman units that will probably last 25 years total for about what he paid for his Lennox which will almost certainly not last much more than 15.


Everything built today is considered to be disposable. It lasts as long as it lasts then you throw it away and buy a new one. They just aren't built like they used to be. The one I replaced was 23 years old. Builder grade 'junk'. I got 3 quotes on both fixing it and replacing it. I could have spent 2 grand for the overhaul it needed, 11-13 grand for a high end unit installed, or 6-8 grand for a cheap unit installed.

I paid a bit under 6 grand for the Goodman. I'm satisfied.

When you list a house, it says when the AC was replaced if that's fairly recent. If that's under 5 years, people are happy. They don't care what brand it is.

Can't argue that.
My no name AC unit was running for 17 years with no service and I replaced it because it got ugly...
The heater went out so I figured why not...

My Bryant system won't make it that long...

 

[hrv]

When my house was built in 1998 it had a Goodman HVAC... R22.. It lasted till 2017 with no issues at all... Had it replaced with a Carrier unit...The tech told me if you get 10 to 12 years out of the newer models...any name...you are doing good...

 

[JayhawkRoy]

I am up to six years on a Goodman heat pump unit I had installed in a house SE KS I own. My own house has a Trane heat pump unit. Maintenance repairs have been about the same (one warranty claim each) in this time frame.

Have been looking at several new construction houses in a three county area near me, and am surprised that every one has Lennox furnace/ac installed. I am assuming that contractors are getting some pretty good deals from Lennox to do this.

 

[Zee09]

I am up to six years on a Goodman heat pump unit I had installed in a house SE KS I own. My own house has a Trane heat pump unit. Maintenance repairs have been about the same (one warranty claim each) in this time frame.

Have been looking at several new construction houses in a three county area near me, and am surprised that every one has Lennox furnace/ac installed. I am assuming that contractors are getting some pretty good deals from Lennox to do this.

It is on here from two years ago but my local Lennox dealer blew away the competition on my house I just sold in October.
I got 2 sets of Signature units and no other dealer came close. And the install was fast and well done..
Bryant mid grades couldn't even compete

 

[dlundblad]

I talked to a commercial/ industrial “pipe fitter” yesterday about mini splits. (They don’t like being called plumbers I guess. Whatever.)

I’m assuming a heat pump would be similar. Anyways, he said their service guy told him the majority of them have the same brand compressors in them. He just installed a Goodman at his house FWIW.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The Goodman are builder grade and the HVAC guys say maybe they will last 6 to 8 years. But maybe when you you are building a new house you can not get everything upgraded.

I see a lot of houses with Tyvek house wrap when the really should be using Zipboard. I guess that's an upgrade also.

ZIP is sold as an upgrade? That's scary.

 

[CDX825]

I talked to a commercial/ industrial “pipe fitter” yesterday about mini splits. (They don’t like being called plumbers I guess. Whatever.)

I’m assuming a heat pump would be similar. Anyways, he said their service guy told him the majority of them have the same brand compressors in them. He just installed a Goodman at his house FWIW.

Gree and Midea make most of the mini splits on the market.

 

[Donald]

ZIP is sold as an upgrade? That's scary.

I cannot say for sure as I am not in one of the cookie cutter developments. But it seems some houses are Zipboard and some just building wrap. That's what I can see driving by. I wonder if there is an upgrade like "flash roof properly so next roof can be easily and properly installed".

I would like the upgrade where use #12 wire for all outlets whether 15 or 20 amp circuits. CAT6 wire to each room and a few ceiling locations for WIFI. Bring to patch panel.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I cannot say for sure as I am not in one of the cookie cutter developments. But it seems some houses are Zipboard and some just building wrap. That's what I can see driving by. I wonder if there is an upgrade like "flash roof properly so next roof can be easily and properly installed".

I would like the upgrade where use #12 wire for all outlets whether 15 or 20 amp circuits. CAT6 wire to each room and a few ceiling locations for WIFI. Bring to patch panel.

Gotcha.

In case you were wondering ZIP is an all-in-one product of OSB w/fluid film which performs like house wrap.. It's a great product but install is less forgiving compared to OSB w/ house wrap. You can't overdrive nails with ZIP and the ZIP-tape must be applied correctly. That can be hard to do. The upsell for ZIP is that it takes less time to install vs OSB and housewrap so builders should save money on net.

 

[Donald]

Gotcha.

In case you were wondering ZIP is an all-in-one product of OSB w/fluid film which performs like house wrap.. It's a great product but install is less forgiving compared to OSB w/ house wrap. You can't overdrive nails with ZIP and the ZIP-tape must be applied correctly. That can be hard to do. The upsell for ZIP is that it takes less time to install vs OSB and housewrap so builders should save money on net.

One might hope when spending $400K+ for one of these houses that the working doing the work know what they are doing.

 

[skyactiv]

Gotcha.

In case you were wondering ZIP is an all-in-one product of OSB w/fluid film which performs like house wrap.. It's a great product but install is less forgiving compared to OSB w/ house wrap. You can't overdrive nails with ZIP and the ZIP-tape must be applied correctly. That can be hard to do. The upsell for ZIP is that it takes less time to install vs OSB and housewrap so builders should save money on net.

I had a home built 2 years ago. It has plywood with Barricade wrap stainless steel brick flashing, 6” insulated studs. I went for going broke.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Gree and Midea make most of the mini splits on the market.

That don't have a Daikin or Mistubishi label on them.



FWIW, I saw a Carrier "Branded" mini-split system several months ago. There was NO WHERE on any piece of equipment the name of the manufacturer. This is Carrier, supposedly a well-respected brand. They have their local reps pushing this stuff hard into the mini-split market. They want in it soooooo bad, they won't even put their name on the stuff.


I've told people for decades.... If I were lucky enough to manufacturer something and sell it, I would be very, very proud of it. My name would be all over it!

 

[MHartfield]

I'm a very occasional BITOG poster, but I might have "stumbled" on this thread at the perfect time.

I'm not an "HVAC Insider," but I'm having an 1,100 sq. foot manufactured home installed right now. I'm in Bullhead City, AZ, across the Colorado River from Laughlin, NV, where it gets to 115°.

My home has optional 2x6 studs, with insulation to match. Master bedroom on 1 side, kitchen / living / dining in the middle, and 2 bedrooms and a utility area on the other side. So, I plan to install 3 mini-splits, 1 for the master, 1 in the middle, and 1 for the 2 bedrooms. From what I've read, I need 20-24,000 BTUs?

I've started talking to an a/c guy (licensed), but he seems like he might be more of a "central air" guy than mini-splits.

My question for the braintrust here: what brands do I want to look at? It seems some people like Daikin and Mitsubishi. The nearest Daikin dealers are 35-60 miles away.

Your thoughts?

BTW, I just moved from a Southern California 55+ community with an 850 sq. ft. home, and my Day & Night, built in Southern Cal in the mid 90's (?), was still running strong, as were about 1/3 of them that were in my 126 home community.

Thanks,
Mike Hartfield