I really don't know the significance of doing early drains like this. Yes wear is higher initially as you'd expect, but with modern engines the wear levels are very low. Even on the first UOA's you'll see Fe as high as 40ppm etc., which honestly isn't that high. It's high relative to where it will end up settling, but I don't see the concern or need to dump it so soon.
How To Extend The Life Of Your New Car's Engine - Oil Change Hack
- Thread starter buster
- Start date
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Very much depends on the engine - iron sleeved V8’s are gonna make iron in the first few miles - I tend to also get a Fram Ultra on there even though I might use a lesser filter later …
Good thread BTW …
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2014
- Messages
- 1,187
This fellow does sound like he knows his stuff, but I agree he seems irritating to listen to, maybe way over the top too excited. As far as early oil changes (PLURAL) on a new vehicle, I'm in his camp and so are many others, such as Jim Fitch/CEO of Noria Corp., who has actually written and had books published on tribology (with a chapter on EARLY oil changes on new engines, which I've read and own the book). However, regardless of any evidence, BITOGERS gonna BITOG, nobody here is going to change their opinion or habits.
I question a few things in his video, such as "all the debris,"--never happen, along with "all the oil." Explain how pouring 1 quart thru the engine with the drain plug removed "flushes the debris" from the oil in the lifters and the oil galleries? I mean, we ARE talking ppm, and he barehanded an oil drain plug on a "warmed up" engine?
I nevertheless enjoyed the video, it could have been much shorter, he reinforced my already biased opinion, which is my opinion, not subject to others opinions. Thanks for posting.
I question a few things in his video, such as "all the debris,"--never happen, along with "all the oil." Explain how pouring 1 quart thru the engine with the drain plug removed "flushes the debris" from the oil in the lifters and the oil galleries? I mean, we ARE talking ppm, and he barehanded an oil drain plug on a "warmed up" engine?
I nevertheless enjoyed the video, it could have been much shorter, he reinforced my already biased opinion, which is my opinion, not subject to others opinions. Thanks for posting.
My family has bought several new cars over the years and I've always done an 'early' oil change on them.
In the 70s and 80s an 'early' change meant 800 to 1000 miles....now it means 2000 to 2500 miles.
I would never go over 3000 miles on the factory fill oil regardless of what the manufacturer recommends.
In the 70s and 80s an 'early' change meant 800 to 1000 miles....now it means 2000 to 2500 miles.
I would never go over 3000 miles on the factory fill oil regardless of what the manufacturer recommends.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
I believe it. I just question what harm is being done because there are very small wear metals in the oil.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Won‘t hurt - and clean magnets will “get back to work” …
On a brand new engine that could have who knows what circulating around in the oil passages? I disagree.
I'm a little disappointed in this video. Draining perfectly clean oil to save a few ppm in wear.
*Very close to what I did using synthetic D1/G2 in my 2017 Hyundai Sonata and it did not make any difference as my Theta II engine burns about 2 quarts of oil every oil change (4.5K miles / 6 months) . Other engines in my sig were bought new using same oil and change process and do not burn a drop of oil .
Re base stocks, I am going by what the owner of High Performance Lubricants has stated:
"PCMO has AN/ester."
"No VII [series] ...are consistent with respective PCMO and Euro series."
"The Premium Plus is PAO with a Star VII."
The boron content is per VOA and UOA's and that is presumbly from dosage and design:
VOA High Performance Lubricants SuperCar 0W20 "OVERKILL" shows 50-77 ppm boron.
UOA's High Performance Lubricants Premium Plus shows 0-12 ppm boron.
"When you get to these lower viscosities like this [ie TGMO 0W16 SP], because you can't rely on viscosity to do all the work for you, you have to have a top shelf additive package to do the work."
Lake Speed, Jr
From the chart posted in the video:
Exxon Mobil 5W30 Oxidative Screening Test
"Synesstic 5 AN formulated with Group III base stocks, demonstrates improved oxidative stability in engine oils compared to Group III blended with an ester and a Group III."
"Less esters > less competition with additive packages, increasing the effectiveness of the add pack."
Lake Speed, Jr
Lake Speed, Jr
From the chart posted in the video:
Exxon Mobil 5W30 Oxidative Screening Test
"Synesstic 5 AN formulated with Group III base stocks, demonstrates improved oxidative stability in engine oils compared to Group III blended with an ester and a Group III."
"Less esters > less competition with additive packages, increasing the effectiveness of the add pack."
Lake Speed, Jr
Out of interest, I am anxious to find out details of thin oil design.
XOM uses a synergistic, balanced dosage of moly, zinc and boron. HPL uses equivalent moly, zinc but very high magnesium and nominal boron.
Then there are the respective basestocks.
While off topic, this topic of very thin oil design is discussed by Lake Speed, Jr here, and is rare to read about. On to GF-7 !
XOM uses a synergistic, balanced dosage of moly, zinc and boron. HPL uses equivalent moly, zinc but very high magnesium and nominal boron.
Then there are the respective basestocks.
While off topic, this topic of very thin oil design is discussed by Lake Speed, Jr here, and is rare to read about. On to GF-7 !
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2023
- Messages
- 208
Great info. Very close to the strategy I am following with my break-in. I have not changed the filter since purchase. I did fluid exchanges with my evacuator. I also installed a maganeric drain plug. 2023 Tacoma V6.
1st fluid extraction at 230 miles - remove factory fill 0w-20 and use M1 EF 5w-40
2nd at 600 miles - M1 EF 5w-40 - fluid exchange
3rd at 1k miles miles M1 EF 5w-40
currently at 2400 miles / Cera Tec.
I plan on doing a UOA very soon and look at at the filter closely. Should be interesting.
I believe the purpose of this strategy is to significantly reduce the amount of wear metals circulating and acting as microscopic sandpaper. It’s what the filter can’t pick up. Doing this in the early stages of wear-in produces a more effective and efficient machine. More compression, less consumption, better efficiency. This process of early fluid exchanges and use of break-in oil is pretty standard with crate motors and building / balancing performance engines. No, we are not seating the rings but this does not mean that metal is low. In a race engine, after seating the rings and bearings the oil is immediately replaced. 20 - 50 miles. Anyway, It’s always very high by 10k miles on break-in. Amsoil suggest first change by 200 miles.
1st fluid extraction at 230 miles - remove factory fill 0w-20 and use M1 EF 5w-40
2nd at 600 miles - M1 EF 5w-40 - fluid exchange
3rd at 1k miles miles M1 EF 5w-40
currently at 2400 miles / Cera Tec.
I plan on doing a UOA very soon and look at at the filter closely. Should be interesting.
I believe the purpose of this strategy is to significantly reduce the amount of wear metals circulating and acting as microscopic sandpaper. It’s what the filter can’t pick up. Doing this in the early stages of wear-in produces a more effective and efficient machine. More compression, less consumption, better efficiency. This process of early fluid exchanges and use of break-in oil is pretty standard with crate motors and building / balancing performance engines. No, we are not seating the rings but this does not mean that metal is low. In a race engine, after seating the rings and bearings the oil is immediately replaced. 20 - 50 miles. Anyway, It’s always very high by 10k miles on break-in. Amsoil suggest first change by 200 miles.
Last edited:
The latest SP M1 is likely using some bio-sourced based oils and whatever they discovered with Red Bull that apparently came from the cosmetics industry. All the oxidation readings of all the M1 oils are now under 10 and they additives on paper are much lower across the board. So it's unclear if they are using AN's. I'd say likely but not guaranteed.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
