How thin will 30wt get with MMO?
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Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
I'm running that same oil in my 90 Chevy 5.7 at a mix of 4 qts Rotella 30 wt to 1 qt MMO which is 20%. My suggestion would be to stay at 20% (1.6 qts) or less of MMO...and let the expected temperatures be your guiding factor.
Since MMO has a KV100 of 2.6cSt, 20% will drop the KV100 of the Rotella to about 8.7cSt or that of a 20wt oil.
That may be fine in light duty applications or in the winter if oil temp's don't get much above 80C.
Otherwise I'd limit the MMO to 10%.
I'm running that same oil in my 90 Chevy 5.7 at a mix of 4 qts Rotella 30 wt to 1 qt MMO which is 20%. My suggestion would be to stay at 20% (1.6 qts) or less of MMO...and let the expected temperatures be your guiding factor.
Since MMO has a KV100 of 2.6cSt, 20% will drop the KV100 of the Rotella to about 8.7cSt or that of a 20wt oil.
That may be fine in light duty applications or in the winter if oil temp's don't get much above 80C.
Otherwise I'd limit the MMO to 10%.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
I'm running that same oil in my 90 Chevy 5.7 at a mix of 4 qts Rotella 30 wt to 1 qt MMO which is 20%. My suggestion would be to stay at 20% (1.6 qts) or less of MMO...and let the expected temperatures be your guiding factor.
Since MMO has a KV100 of 2.6cSt, 20% will drop the KV100 of the Rotella to about 8.7cSt or that of a 20wt oil.
That may be fine in light duty applications or in the winter if oil temp's don't get much above 80C.
Otherwise I'd limit the MMO to 10%.
I added it to some T6 to a ratio of anywhere from 16%-20% and it was a really thick 30. =P
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
I'm running that same oil in my 90 Chevy 5.7 at a mix of 4 qts Rotella 30 wt to 1 qt MMO which is 20%. My suggestion would be to stay at 20% (1.6 qts) or less of MMO...and let the expected temperatures be your guiding factor.
Since MMO has a KV100 of 2.6cSt, 20% will drop the KV100 of the Rotella to about 8.7cSt or that of a 20wt oil.
That may be fine in light duty applications or in the winter if oil temp's don't get much above 80C.
Otherwise I'd limit the MMO to 10%.
I added it to some T6 to a ratio of anywhere from 16%-20% and it was a really thick 30. =P
Adding to T6 even at 16% will drop the KV100 spec' from 14.2cSt to 10.5cSt, and while still a 30wt it's certainly not "a really thick 30".
I don't have this figured out yet.
I've noticed an immediate improvement in cold starting when adding MMO to the oil, even as little as a pint has made a notable difference in several vehicles.
Yet I just tried an experimental "cleaning run" with 25% MMO and used a much thicker base oil, 15w40 Rotella, due to the large amount of MMO. According to the calculator I should have been flirting with a thinnish 30 weight at best. That's why I waited until it got cold to try it. In actual practice it still acted like a 40 weight (my Jeep complains on 40 weights). Cold start up noise when the temps dipped was so horrendous and agonizing to listen to, I had to dump it. That was after I first suspected the filter, changed it only, and saw no improvement.
So I put Pennzoil YB 5w30 in it, and left the second filter. According to the calculator the 5w30 should be thicker than what I took out, but I've had no extra cold start up noise at all. None. What a shocking difference.
I don't know why, but it seems that while MMO clearly thins the oil, it doesn't do so as much as you might expect. Maybe that's part of the "Mystery" hah hah.
I would have been interesting to have a UOA done to see what I took out actually spec'd at, but I didn't think of that in time.
I've noticed an immediate improvement in cold starting when adding MMO to the oil, even as little as a pint has made a notable difference in several vehicles.
Yet I just tried an experimental "cleaning run" with 25% MMO and used a much thicker base oil, 15w40 Rotella, due to the large amount of MMO. According to the calculator I should have been flirting with a thinnish 30 weight at best. That's why I waited until it got cold to try it. In actual practice it still acted like a 40 weight (my Jeep complains on 40 weights). Cold start up noise when the temps dipped was so horrendous and agonizing to listen to, I had to dump it. That was after I first suspected the filter, changed it only, and saw no improvement.
So I put Pennzoil YB 5w30 in it, and left the second filter. According to the calculator the 5w30 should be thicker than what I took out, but I've had no extra cold start up noise at all. None. What a shocking difference.
I don't know why, but it seems that while MMO clearly thins the oil, it doesn't do so as much as you might expect. Maybe that's part of the "Mystery" hah hah.
I would have been interesting to have a UOA done to see what I took out actually spec'd at, but I didn't think of that in time.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I don't have this figured out yet.
So I put Pennzoil YB 5w30 in it, and left the second filter. According to the calculator the 5w30 should be thicker than what I took out, but I've had no extra cold start up noise at all. None. What a shocking difference.
I would have been interesting to have a UOA done to see what I took out actually spec'd at, but I didn't think of that in time.
PYB would be thicker at operating temp's but lighter on start-up compared to the low VI 15w40 dino/MMO concoction.
Forget a UOA, what you really need is an oil pressure gauge which will give you an indication of the oil's viscosity at all oil temp's a running engine.
I don't have this figured out yet.
So I put Pennzoil YB 5w30 in it, and left the second filter. According to the calculator the 5w30 should be thicker than what I took out, but I've had no extra cold start up noise at all. None. What a shocking difference.
I would have been interesting to have a UOA done to see what I took out actually spec'd at, but I didn't think of that in time.
PYB would be thicker at operating temp's but lighter on start-up compared to the low VI 15w40 dino/MMO concoction.
Forget a UOA, what you really need is an oil pressure gauge which will give you an indication of the oil's viscosity at all oil temp's a running engine.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
PYB would be thicker at operating temp's but lighter on start-up compared to the low VI 15w40 dino/MMO concoction.
Forget a UOA, what you really need is an oil pressure gauge which will give you an indication of the oil's viscosity at all oil temp's a running engine.
Well that's definitely the way it played out. Thanks for the input, I have much to learn and that aspect totally escaped me when I planned it out.
PYB would be thicker at operating temp's but lighter on start-up compared to the low VI 15w40 dino/MMO concoction.
Forget a UOA, what you really need is an oil pressure gauge which will give you an indication of the oil's viscosity at all oil temp's a running engine.
Well that's definitely the way it played out. Thanks for the input, I have much to learn and that aspect totally escaped me when I planned it out.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Adding to T6 even at 16% will drop the KV100 spec' from 14.2cSt to 10.5cSt, and while still a 30wt it's certainly not "a really thick 30".
I went back and checked, you're right on. My UOA showed similar, with 0w30 M1(1qt) + T6(2qt) + 16-20% MMO.
Adding to T6 even at 16% will drop the KV100 spec' from 14.2cSt to 10.5cSt, and while still a 30wt it's certainly not "a really thick 30".
I went back and checked, you're right on. My UOA showed similar, with 0w30 M1(1qt) + T6(2qt) + 16-20% MMO.
I dont like or use MMO. I do not get it. Many wonderful oils out there to use and use. Why add some red liquid to a wonderful 5w or 0w20-30 oil. Makes no sense, either money or thought wise, to me. Give me some good predictable motor oil.
No argument from me.
Originally Posted By: toneydoc
I dont like or use MMO. I do not get it. Many wonderful oils out there to use and use. Why add some red liquid to a wonderful 5w or 0w20-30 oil. Makes no sense, either money or thought wise, to me. Give me some good predictable motor oil.
Well, forget MMO, necessarily, but what about something like Kreen? Added at a good ratio is deemed by most users of it to be much more 'helpful' than motor oil in some troublesome apps. I may even try some myself. MMO used for similar reasons, piston soaks etc, seem to be for more quick results than motor oil yields.
I dont like or use MMO. I do not get it. Many wonderful oils out there to use and use. Why add some red liquid to a wonderful 5w or 0w20-30 oil. Makes no sense, either money or thought wise, to me. Give me some good predictable motor oil.
Well, forget MMO, necessarily, but what about something like Kreen? Added at a good ratio is deemed by most users of it to be much more 'helpful' than motor oil in some troublesome apps. I may even try some myself. MMO used for similar reasons, piston soaks etc, seem to be for more quick results than motor oil yields.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
I'm running that same oil in my 90 Chevy 5.7 at a mix of 4 qts Rotella 30 wt to 1 qt MMO which is 20%. My suggestion would be to stay at 20% (1.6 qts) or less of MMO...and let the expected temperatures be your guiding factor.
Since MMO has a KV100 of 2.6cSt, 20% will drop the KV100 of the Rotella to about 8.7cSt or that of a 20wt oil.
That may be fine in light duty applications or in the winter if oil temp's don't get much above 80C.
Otherwise I'd limit the MMO to 10%.
Thanks for the lots of useful inputs on this subject!
So if we added 20% of this 2.6cST MMO to a 15W40 oil, what would be the final grade... still a 15W orwill it go down to a 5W and will it remain a 40 weight or go down to a 30 weigh oil ?
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
I'm running that same oil in my 90 Chevy 5.7 at a mix of 4 qts Rotella 30 wt to 1 qt MMO which is 20%. My suggestion would be to stay at 20% (1.6 qts) or less of MMO...and let the expected temperatures be your guiding factor.
Since MMO has a KV100 of 2.6cSt, 20% will drop the KV100 of the Rotella to about 8.7cSt or that of a 20wt oil.
That may be fine in light duty applications or in the winter if oil temp's don't get much above 80C.
Otherwise I'd limit the MMO to 10%.
Thanks for the lots of useful inputs on this subject!
So if we added 20% of this 2.6cST MMO to a 15W40 oil, what would be the final grade... still a 15W orwill it go down to a 5W and will it remain a 40 weight or go down to a 30 weigh oil ?
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
MMO used for similar reasons, piston soaks etc, seem to be for more quick results than motor oil yields.
hello ltslimjim, on a different note, what kind of OCI are you getting with RP 5w30 in your honda civic ?
MMO used for similar reasons, piston soaks etc, seem to be for more quick results than motor oil yields.
hello ltslimjim, on a different note, what kind of OCI are you getting with RP 5w30 in your honda civic ?
As discussed earlier adding 20% of MMO to a 15w40 will give you a light 30wt oil. Whether it is a 15w30, 10w30 or 5w30 is hard to say without knowing the KV40 spec' of MMO.
My best guess is that it would have the viscosity characteristics of a 10w30.
My best guess is that it would have the viscosity characteristics of a 10w30.
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
MMO used for similar reasons, piston soaks etc, seem to be for more quick results than motor oil yields.
hello ltslimjim, on a different note, what kind of OCI are you getting with RP 5w30 in your honda civic ?
I don't use Royal Purple oil, just their filter currently. My friend used it in his Titan and we're trying Amsoil ASL 5w30 to see if wear trends down instead...his car is modded, so IDK. He was using API-SL RP in an engine that called for API-SM, IIRC.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
MMO used for similar reasons, piston soaks etc, seem to be for more quick results than motor oil yields.
hello ltslimjim, on a different note, what kind of OCI are you getting with RP 5w30 in your honda civic ?
I don't use Royal Purple oil, just their filter currently. My friend used it in his Titan and we're trying Amsoil ASL 5w30 to see if wear trends down instead...his car is modded, so IDK. He was using API-SL RP in an engine that called for API-SM, IIRC.
Yep, somewhere in the forum on the MMO website a company rep says that if used at the 20-25% rate that it will drop the oil viscosity about one grade - such as 15w40 to 10w30 - but if using 5w20 that it will stay in grade...
Somewhere in the UOAs on here is one from someone running 5w20 with MMO in a patrol car with excellent results that stayed in grade so at least that appears to be so...haven't seen a UOA with other weights of oil...
I haven't heard or read of anything negative associated with the proper use of MMO and as long as it has been around, that in itself says something...has anyone else?
Somewhere in the UOAs on here is one from someone running 5w20 with MMO in a patrol car with excellent results that stayed in grade so at least that appears to be so...haven't seen a UOA with other weights of oil...
I haven't heard or read of anything negative associated with the proper use of MMO and as long as it has been around, that in itself says something...has anyone else?
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
Somewhere in the UOAs on here is one from someone running 5w20 with MMO in a patrol car with excellent results that stayed in grade so at least that appears to be so...haven't seen a UOA with other weights of oil...
I haven't heard or read of anything negative associated with the proper use of MMO and as long as it has been around, that in itself says something...has anyone else?
MMO reduces the viscosity of motor oil.
Obviously it will have a bigger impact when added to heavier weight oils but adding to a 20wt oil will definitely drop it out grade in terms of HTHSV. Adding 20% to a typical 5W-20 like PYB will drop it's KV100 from 8.26cSt to 6.5cSt. It's HTHSV would drop from the minimum 2.6cP (for a 20wt oil) to as low a 2.0cP or a 10wt oil.
The suggestion that MMO hasn't had any reported negative impact is simply evidence that running a grade or two lighter oil than spec' in light duty street applications is usually okay.
Another point that hasn't been raised with MMO is it's NOACK percentage? I don't know what it is but I'm sure it's very high, probabily in the 70+% range. That being the case, it's viscosity reducing effect will drop off during a typical OCI as MMO evaporates off.
Somewhere in the UOAs on here is one from someone running 5w20 with MMO in a patrol car with excellent results that stayed in grade so at least that appears to be so...haven't seen a UOA with other weights of oil...
I haven't heard or read of anything negative associated with the proper use of MMO and as long as it has been around, that in itself says something...has anyone else?
MMO reduces the viscosity of motor oil.
Obviously it will have a bigger impact when added to heavier weight oils but adding to a 20wt oil will definitely drop it out grade in terms of HTHSV. Adding 20% to a typical 5W-20 like PYB will drop it's KV100 from 8.26cSt to 6.5cSt. It's HTHSV would drop from the minimum 2.6cP (for a 20wt oil) to as low a 2.0cP or a 10wt oil.
The suggestion that MMO hasn't had any reported negative impact is simply evidence that running a grade or two lighter oil than spec' in light duty street applications is usually okay.
Another point that hasn't been raised with MMO is it's NOACK percentage? I don't know what it is but I'm sure it's very high, probabily in the 70+% range. That being the case, it's viscosity reducing effect will drop off during a typical OCI as MMO evaporates off.
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