How smooth do cam lobes need to be?

[Avery4]

Hello everyone. I recently bought a Honda K24A TSX engine with a 30 day warranty from a local JDM engine shop to swap into my Civic for more power and I was immediately concerned about how rusty the camshafts are as soon as I pulled the valve cover off. The intake cam is hopelessly rusted and the exhaust cam was somewhat rusted, but not horrible and I was able to mostly clean it up. I called the owner of that engine shop and complained and he was being a condescending jerk and insisted it's fine and made all kind of BS excuses for why he won't honor his warranty. I eventually got him to agree to try to clean the intake cam (the really bad one) if I drop it off, which he won't be able to with good results. However, once he sees how bad it is, I'm hoping he will replace it or give me a partial refund so I can buy a cam. I am going to give him the benefit of a doubt and not post the name of the engine shop yet and I will not if he makes this right and honors the warranty, which I don't see happening at this point.

Anyways, I am wondering if you guys think I did an acceptable job cleaning up this exhaust camshaft. I was able to remove most of the rust with 800 grit sandpaper and patience, but the lobes are still a little pitted from the rust. I am wondering if I can safely use this exhaust cam the way it is of if I need to demand that he replaces it as well. I know that 100% smooth is always ideal, but I still need to buy other parts for this swap and I am on a tight budget, so if he won't honor his warranty I can't afford to replace the exhaust cam unless absolutely necessary. Thank you all in advance, I really appreciate any advice you can give me on this issue!

 

[NYEngineer]

We used to throw cams away that looked like that . I wouldnt use it .

 

[Avery4]

We used to throw cams away that looked like that . I wouldnt use it .

Well that's not the response I was hoping for, but I appreciate your advice.

 

[RooflessVW]

I think it's time to give Crower a call.

 

[hemitruck]

Hopefully you paid with a credit card, the card company will go after him. If not small claims court might help.

 

[spasm3]

You better check the bore too!

 

[Avery4]

I think it's time to give Crower a call.

Their answer is going to be to get new cams from them.

 

[Avery4]

Hopefully you paid with a credit card, the card company will go after him. If not small claims court might help.

Unfortunately I paid with cash, I didn’t think about that.

 

[RooflessVW]

Their answer is going to be to get new cams from them.

Oh I know, I was saying that this is a good excuse to get some hot cams from Crower.

The cam in your photo is trash. If the other one is worse, it's double trash.

Since you have to replace, you may as well upgrade!

 

[Avery4]

You better check the bore too!

The cylinders look great, they all still have the factory honing marks with no visible rust. The motor is actually in very good condition other than the cams, it extremely clean inside. I think he got water in the head through the breather on the valve cover when he was cleaning it because that’s the side of the head with the rust on the cams.

 

[Trav]

Hello everyone. I recently bought a Honda K24A TSX engine with a 30 day warranty from a local JDM engine shop to swap into my Civic for more power and I was immediately concerned about how rusty the camshafts are as soon as I pulled the valve cover off. The intake cam is hopelessly rusted and the exhaust cam was somewhat rusted, but not horrible and I was able to mostly clean it up. I called the owner of that engine shop and complained and he was being a condescending jerk and insisted it's fine and made all kind of BS excuses for why he won't honor his warranty. I eventually got him to agree to try to clean the intake cam (the really bad one) if I drop it off, which he won't be able to with good results. However, once he sees how bad it is, I'm hoping he will replace it or give me a partial refund so I can buy a cam. I am going to give him the benefit of a doubt and not post the name of the engine shop yet and I will not if he makes this right and honors the warranty, which I don't see happening at this point.

Anyways, I am wondering if you guys think I did an acceptable job cleaning up this exhaust camshaft. I was able to remove most of the rust with 800 grit sandpaper and patience, but the lobes are still a little pitted from the rust. I am wondering if I can safely use this exhaust cam the way it is of if I need to demand that he replaces it as well. I know that 100% smooth is always ideal, but I still need to buy other parts for this swap and I am on a tight budget, so if he won't honor his warranty I can't afford to replace the exhaust cam unless absolutely necessary. Thank you all in advance, I really appreciate any advice you can give me on this issue!

The cam in the picture is unfortunately not usable, with the surface damaged like that it will wear quickly.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The cylinders look great, they all still have the factory honing marks with no visible rust. The motor is actually in very good condition other than the cams, it extremely clean inside. I think he got water in the head through the breather on the valve cover when he was cleaning it because that’s the side of the head with the rust on the cams.

I'd let the guy know your theory on why the cams rusted and see if he'll at least give you some money back for selling a damaged engine. Tell him nobody thinks those cams are worth using. Then go find some good used cams or buy some new more aggressive cams.

 

[928]

A long time ago, I worked for a large import parts wholesaler. We had an account that was a cheap engine "rebuilder", wouldn't be surprised that the hone was done with a ball hone. The "rebuilder" used to get 2 engines out of a set of rod bearings, only replaced the uppers. Check the engine carefully before using , no telling what they tried to get away with.
Meanwhile, a trip to the u pull it diasmantler would most likely get cams that looked better, be sure to get the followers too and keep them in order, they wear to each other.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Granted this is a picture and I'm not there with my gauges, hardness tester and microscope ( so there is some room for error) BUT

The pitting and wear pattern STRONGLY indicate this is work hardening and surface fatigue ( rust is simply a byproduct) with cause(s) unknown at present.

There is no known effective repair or refurbishment for that condition.

I would recommend having a competent 3rd party review the rest of that and possibly seek remedy.

 

[supton]

I'm looking at the photos, and I'm curious. It appears that the wear pattern tends to be on the edges of the lobes. But the pitting is in the center. Wild guess on my part, but was this cam cleaned up--or worse, had it been sitting and then the engine just ran? [letting the cam followers clean everything up--and taking some unknown amount of abuse in the process.]

Or is that pitting from something other than rust?

On the second photo, that center lobe, is that a lobe or a bearing surface?

 

[Astro14]

I wouldn’t run those cams.

Replace them regardless of how they got to look like that...

 

[Popsy]

I'd call that cam unfit for service...or maybe a very short one

If you're sure the rest of the engine is in good condition, and there was no "lipstick on a pig" trickery done...otherwise I'd try to return the whole thing and source another engine elsewhere.

 

[Avery4]

I'd call that cam unfit for service...or maybe a very short one

If you're sure the rest of the engine is in good condition, and there was no "lipstick on a pig" trickery done...otherwise I'd try to return the whole thing and source another engine elsewhere.

I haven’t taken the oil pan off yet, but I took the head off and the cylinder walls and timing chain looked perfect. There was no visible water in the oil like the engine had a blown head gasket, so I’m pretty sure the bottom end is alright. I thought about returning the whole thing and getting a different one when I saw the rust on the cams, but I decided against it since there’s no guarantee that the replacement engine wouldn’t be the same way or possibly have other problems. If I return the whole thing for a cash refund there’s a 25% restocking fee. Besides, he said I voided the warranty by taking the valve cover off so he can’t take it back. What a bunch of BS! Taking the valve cover off to check and adjust valve lash is literally part of Honda’s maintenance schedule! So does taking the oil filter off void the warranty too?

 

[Avery4]

I'd let the guy know your theory on why the cams rusted and see if he'll at least give you some money back for selling a damaged engine. Tell him nobody thinks those cams are worth using. Then go find some good used cams or buy some new more aggressive cams.

That’s a good idea. He (or possibly someone else in Japan) also got a bunch of water in the AC compressor and locked it up, which really sucks. I dumped about 1/2 cup of rusty water out of that compressor when I took it off. Nothing I can do about that though since the receipt clearly says that accessories aren’t covered under warranty. One more part I have to buy

 

[Avery4]

I'd let the guy know your theory on why the cams rusted and see if he'll at least give you some money back for selling a damaged engine. Tell him nobody thinks those cams are worth using. Then go find some good used cams or buy some new more aggressive cams.

That's a good idea, I am going to the engine shop to talk to him in a little while. He seemed to be insisting that rust is normal since it has been sitting in a humid warehouse for a while and if I just run it the cams will clean themselves up. I'm not buying that though, I have a Honda D17A2 motor that has been sitting in my humid garage for nearly 2 years and the cam doesn't have the slightest bit of rust on it.
I am going to ask him to either find me a usable set of cams or give me $150 back so I can buy a usable set of cams, $150 is about what they are selling for online. I think that is very reasonable considering how those cams look.