How often do fires happen to ICE vehicles, vs Ev's?

I'm sure that the actual statistics are going to be hard to find, because they don't want you to know. I also suspect that direct injection engines catch on fire more often than regular engines because of the higher fuel pressure involved (but still way lower than EV fire rates).

Someone at an insurance company probably knows for sure.
 
I'm sure that the actual statistics are going to be hard to find, because they don't want you to know. I also suspect that direct injection engines catch on fire more often than regular engines because of the higher fuel pressure involved (but still way lower than EV fire rates).

Someone at an insurance company probably knows for sure.
Not really we have been bouncing around 174,000 vehicle fires a year for a while and if you go to a time before EVs existed the annual numbers used to be higher.

There are claims that fire and rescue responds to 284,000 vehicle fires a year but that metric is a decade old and is assumed to be what was expected each year every year by fire and rescue going back for decades.

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An article from "Motortrend". July 17, 2023 by Scott Evans

https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/

"Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs, but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines.

There's a car fire roughly every five minutes in America. The vast majority of them never make the news. But if a Tesla or a Chevy Bolt catches fire? It's probably on the front page nationwide and going viral online. If the sensational headlines and social media videos are to be believed, EVs are flaming deathtraps that could spontaneously combust at any minute.

EVs are new and different, and their fires pose some different challenges for first responders, so some coverage makes sense; we ourselves cover unusual or noteworthy instances. But if electric vehicles are no more likely to catch fire than any other car on the road, the headline frequency can be misleading. In fact, the data says they account for a tiny fraction of all car fires.

According to National Fire Incident Reporting System data collected by the U.S. Fire Administration and analyzed by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) , an average of 117,370 passenger vehicles caught fire every year between 2013 and 2017 (the most recent data available). That works out to 321 car fires per day, or a car fire every five minutes. How many of those car fires are EVs?

The fact is, no one knows for sure. No American government agency we're aware of breaks out car fires by drivetrain, nor do they granularly break out car fires by vehicle age. There is no database that tells you how many EVs catch fire each year or what percentage of EVs catch fire. Similarly, no database tells you how many cars running on gas or diesel catch on fire. The NFPA analysis even goes out of its way to mention the lack of data on EVs and makes no claims about the frequency or likelihood of EV fires.

The Swedish authorities, however, are keeping track. The Myndigheten för Samhällsskydd och Beredskap (MSB, or Authority for Social Protection and Preparedness) recently released the first report of its kind specifically tracking EV fires in Sweden and comparing them to combustion-powered vehicle fires and the results are clear: EVs are much less likely to catch fire.

Per the MSB, just 29 EVs and 52 hybrids caught fire in Sweden between 2018 and 2022. On average, 16 vehicles powered by batteries (EVs and hybrids combined) catch fire there each year. On average, 3,400 passenger vehicles catch fire each year in Sweden, meaning EVs account for 0.4 percent of all passenger vehicle fires there annually. Hybrids account for 1.5 percent, for a combined total of 1.9 percent of all passenger vehicle fires.

Put another way, gas- and diesel-powered cars account for 98.1 percent of all passenger vehicle fires in Sweden each year on average.

Combustion-Powered Vehicles Are 29 Times More Likely To Catch Fire

According to MSB data, there are nearly 611,000 EVs and hybrids in Sweden as of 2022. With an average of 16 EV and hybrid fires per year, there's a 1 in 38,000 chance of fire. There are a total of roughly 4.4 million gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles in Sweden, with an average of 3,384 fires per year, for a 1 in 1,300 chance of fire. That means gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles are 29 times more likely to catch fire than EVs and hybrids.

The Problem Isn’t Getting Worse

With more and more EVs, hybrids, and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) being sold every year, it's reasonable to wonder whether that rate of fires in those cars will increase. The MSB study found that after a rise in fires from 2019 to 2020, the rate is basically unchanged over the past 3 years with 20 EV and hybrid fires in 2020, 24 fires in 2021, and 23 fires in 2022. In that same time period, the MSB reports the number of EVs in Sweden has more than doubled to nearly 611,000. Prior to 2020, fewer EVs and hybrids caught fire with 8 in 2018 and 6 in 2019.

Not All EVs Are Made The Same

Note these numbers include all hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and EVs and not just ones using lithium-ion batteries. Up until 2021, the vast majority of hybrids used nickel-metal hydride batteries, which don't burn the same way lithium-ion batteries do.

The MSB also notes that not all of the fires included in its numbers involved the battery pack. In some cases, other parts of the vehicle burned but the fire was put out before it reached the batteries.

We should also point out there are some EVs and hybrids sold in Sweden that are not sold in the U.S. and some that are sold here that aren't sold in Sweden, so the fire risk may differ slightly in our two countries.

Electrical Problems Aren’t the Leading Cause of Car Fires

Not having an engine and its accompanying mechanical systems might actually reduce the risk of a vehicle fire. According to the NFPA, the leading cause of vehicle fires is mechanical failure or malfunction, accounting for 45 percent of all such fires. Electrical problems are a distant second, accounting for 23 percent of the total. Not having gasoline, hot exhaust, and controlled explosions on board significantly reduces the possible ways for a fire to start.

Age Matters More

In fact, the analysis shows older cars are far and away the most likely to catch fire and the risk of fire increases the older a car gets. A total of 77 percent of all car fires that occurred in 2017 involved vehicles made in 2007 or earlier, so those at least 10 years old or older. The original Tesla Roadster didn't come out until 2008, and only 2,500 of those were built. The first mass-market EV, the Nissan Leaf, wasn't released until 2010. Only the earliest modern EVs, of which very few were sold, are 10 years old today. The NFPA report cites worn-out parts and deferred maintenance as the likely cause of increased fire danger for older cars.

EV Fires Are Harder To Put Out

It's true that car fires involving vehicles with lithium-ion batteries must be handled differently than other car fires both because of the risk of high-voltage electrical shock and the way lithium-ion batteries burn. When extremely overheated, lithium-ion batteries experience what's called thermal runaway, a chemical process that isn't as easily extinguished as a gasoline fire in part because it doesn't require oxygen. They also carry a higher likelihood of reigniting after the fire is believed to be extinguished.

Because of this, it can take far more water to put out a fire with a lithium-ion battery than a typical car fire. Automakers who have supplied guidelines to the NFPA generally suggest 3,000 gallons of water or more to put out an EV fire.

In the meantime, many fire departments are issuing much simpler guidance: If an EV battery is on fire and there's minimal risk of the fire spreading to other vehicles, structures, or the environment, just let it burn itself out. The International Association of Fire Chiefs recommends "consideration and tactics [that] may be categorized in offensive or defensive mode. This may be based on exposures and the extent of fire which may include actions to let the vehicle burn." The city of Phoenix, Arizona, suggests in its official handbook "once life safety has been addressed, fire companies should determine if they should suppress the fire or simply allow the vehicle to burn … once the batteries have gone into thermal runaway, we understand that the vehicle is most likely a total loss. Control efforts must consider life safety, property conservation, exposure protection, environmental protection, and firefighter safety."

Numerous organizations, including various levels of government and nonprofits, are working to train fire departments on best practices for extinguishing EV fires, and research is being done into better techniques and improved fire-suppressing chemicals. Most departments are already familiar with procedures for avoiding electrical shocks, as hybrids have been on the road for more than 20 years now. Manufacturers continue to denote high-voltage componentry and wiring with orange coloring and prominent labeling.

The firefighting procedures also extend to how burned EVs are handled once the fire is out. Because thermal runaway is a chemical chain reaction, damaged lithium-ion batteries remain at risk of reigniting for far longer than gasoline or diesel. Once an EV fire is put out, the remains will need to be transported to a holding yard prepared to handle a reignition. These yards typically follow additional procedures, such as keeping burned EVs farther away from other flammable objects and monitoring the remains for reignition.

Do the Math

The simple fact is we've had gas- and diesel-powered vehicles for more than 120 years, and they've been catching fire since day one. We're used to it. We've accepted it as a fact of life and we've done our best to make them safer while devising better ways to put them out. EVs seem new and different, but EVs have existed for nearly as long—they just haven't been this popular in a century. EV sales are now growing so fast they'll be just as unremarkable as every other car on the road sooner rather than later. So, too, will be EV fires."
 
An article from "Motortrend". July 17, 2023 by Scott Evans

https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/

"Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs, but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines.

There's a car fire roughly every five minutes in America. The vast majority of them never make the news. But if a Tesla or a Chevy Bolt catches fire? It's probably on the front page nationwide and going viral online. If the sensational headlines and social media videos are to be believed, EVs are flaming deathtraps that could spontaneously combust at any minute.

EVs are new and different, and their fires pose some different challenges for first responders, so some coverage makes sense; we ourselves cover unusual or noteworthy instances. But if electric vehicles are no more likely to catch fire than any other car on the road, the headline frequency can be misleading. In fact, the data says they account for a tiny fraction of all car fires.

According to National Fire Incident Reporting System data collected by the U.S. Fire Administration and analyzed by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) , an average of 117,370 passenger vehicles caught fire every year between 2013 and 2017 (the most recent data available). That works out to 321 car fires per day, or a car fire every five minutes. How many of those car fires are EVs?

The fact is, no one knows for sure. No American government agency we're aware of breaks out car fires by drivetrain, nor do they granularly break out car fires by vehicle age. There is no database that tells you how many EVs catch fire each year or what percentage of EVs catch fire. Similarly, no database tells you how many cars running on gas or diesel catch on fire. The NFPA analysis even goes out of its way to mention the lack of data on EVs and makes no claims about the frequency or likelihood of EV fires.

The Swedish authorities, however, are keeping track. The Myndigheten för Samhällsskydd och Beredskap (MSB, or Authority for Social Protection and Preparedness) recently released the first report of its kind specifically tracking EV fires in Sweden and comparing them to combustion-powered vehicle fires and the results are clear: EVs are much less likely to catch fire.

Per the MSB, just 29 EVs and 52 hybrids caught fire in Sweden between 2018 and 2022. On average, 16 vehicles powered by batteries (EVs and hybrids combined) catch fire there each year. On average, 3,400 passenger vehicles catch fire each year in Sweden, meaning EVs account for 0.4 percent of all passenger vehicle fires there annually. Hybrids account for 1.5 percent, for a combined total of 1.9 percent of all passenger vehicle fires.

Put another way, gas- and diesel-powered cars account for 98.1 percent of all passenger vehicle fires in Sweden each year on average.

Combustion-Powered Vehicles Are 29 Times More Likely To Catch Fire

According to MSB data, there are nearly 611,000 EVs and hybrids in Sweden as of 2022. With an average of 16 EV and hybrid fires per year, there's a 1 in 38,000 chance of fire. There are a total of roughly 4.4 million gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles in Sweden, with an average of 3,384 fires per year, for a 1 in 1,300 chance of fire. That means gas- and diesel-powered passenger vehicles are 29 times more likely to catch fire than EVs and hybrids.

The Problem Isn’t Getting Worse

With more and more EVs, hybrids, and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) being sold every year, it's reasonable to wonder whether that rate of fires in those cars will increase. The MSB study found that after a rise in fires from 2019 to 2020, the rate is basically unchanged over the past 3 years with 20 EV and hybrid fires in 2020, 24 fires in 2021, and 23 fires in 2022. In that same time period, the MSB reports the number of EVs in Sweden has more than doubled to nearly 611,000. Prior to 2020, fewer EVs and hybrids caught fire with 8 in 2018 and 6 in 2019.

Not All EVs Are Made The Same

Note these numbers include all hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and EVs and not just ones using lithium-ion batteries. Up until 2021, the vast majority of hybrids used nickel-metal hydride batteries, which don't burn the same way lithium-ion batteries do.

The MSB also notes that not all of the fires included in its numbers involved the battery pack. In some cases, other parts of the vehicle burned but the fire was put out before it reached the batteries.

We should also point out there are some EVs and hybrids sold in Sweden that are not sold in the U.S. and some that are sold here that aren't sold in Sweden, so the fire risk may differ slightly in our two countries.

Electrical Problems Aren’t the Leading Cause of Car Fires

Not having an engine and its accompanying mechanical systems might actually reduce the risk of a vehicle fire. According to the NFPA, the leading cause of vehicle fires is mechanical failure or malfunction, accounting for 45 percent of all such fires. Electrical problems are a distant second, accounting for 23 percent of the total. Not having gasoline, hot exhaust, and controlled explosions on board significantly reduces the possible ways for a fire to start.

Age Matters More

In fact, the analysis shows older cars are far and away the most likely to catch fire and the risk of fire increases the older a car gets. A total of 77 percent of all car fires that occurred in 2017 involved vehicles made in 2007 or earlier, so those at least 10 years old or older. The original Tesla Roadster didn't come out until 2008, and only 2,500 of those were built. The first mass-market EV, the Nissan Leaf, wasn't released until 2010. Only the earliest modern EVs, of which very few were sold, are 10 years old today. The NFPA report cites worn-out parts and deferred maintenance as the likely cause of increased fire danger for older cars.

EV Fires Are Harder To Put Out

It's true that car fires involving vehicles with lithium-ion batteries must be handled differently than other car fires both because of the risk of high-voltage electrical shock and the way lithium-ion batteries burn. When extremely overheated, lithium-ion batteries experience what's called thermal runaway, a chemical process that isn't as easily extinguished as a gasoline fire in part because it doesn't require oxygen. They also carry a higher likelihood of reigniting after the fire is believed to be extinguished.

Because of this, it can take far more water to put out a fire with a lithium-ion battery than a typical car fire. Automakers who have supplied guidelines to the NFPA generally suggest 3,000 gallons of water or more to put out an EV fire.

In the meantime, many fire departments are issuing much simpler guidance: If an EV battery is on fire and there's minimal risk of the fire spreading to other vehicles, structures, or the environment, just let it burn itself out. The International Association of Fire Chiefs recommends "consideration and tactics [that] may be categorized in offensive or defensive mode. This may be based on exposures and the extent of fire which may include actions to let the vehicle burn." The city of Phoenix, Arizona, suggests in its official handbook "once life safety has been addressed, fire companies should determine if they should suppress the fire or simply allow the vehicle to burn … once the batteries have gone into thermal runaway, we understand that the vehicle is most likely a total loss. Control efforts must consider life safety, property conservation, exposure protection, environmental protection, and firefighter safety."

Numerous organizations, including various levels of government and nonprofits, are working to train fire departments on best practices for extinguishing EV fires, and research is being done into better techniques and improved fire-suppressing chemicals. Most departments are already familiar with procedures for avoiding electrical shocks, as hybrids have been on the road for more than 20 years now. Manufacturers continue to denote high-voltage componentry and wiring with orange coloring and prominent labeling.

The firefighting procedures also extend to how burned EVs are handled once the fire is out. Because thermal runaway is a chemical chain reaction, damaged lithium-ion batteries remain at risk of reigniting for far longer than gasoline or diesel. Once an EV fire is put out, the remains will need to be transported to a holding yard prepared to handle a reignition. These yards typically follow additional procedures, such as keeping burned EVs farther away from other flammable objects and monitoring the remains for reignition.

Do the Math

The simple fact is we've had gas- and diesel-powered vehicles for more than 120 years, and they've been catching fire since day one. We're used to it. We've accepted it as a fact of life and we've done our best to make them safer while devising better ways to put them out. EVs seem new and different, but EVs have existed for nearly as long—they just haven't been this popular in a century. EV sales are now growing so fast they'll be just as unremarkable as every other car on the road sooner rather than later. So, too, will be EV fires."
I like this Car and Driver article better:
No, millions of cars are not catching fire every year | BobIsTheOilGuy
 
An article from "Motortrend". July 17, 2023 by Scott Evans

https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires/

"Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs, but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines.

There's a car fire roughly every five minutes in America. The vast majority of them never make the news. But if a Tesla or a Chevy Bolt catches fire? It's probably on the front page nationwide and going viral online. If the sensational headlines and social media videos are to be believed, EVs are flaming deathtraps that could spontaneously combust at any minute.
There is no valid data to date on EV vs Gas fires. Even the data specialists can only piece together information.

Motortrend discredits the story with just one statement in my eyes.
"
"Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs, but you wouldn’t know that from the headlines.
There's a car fire roughly every five minutes in America."

Boom, end of conversation. There are 279 MILLION automobiles in the USA of all ages, many very old, of that not even 4% of them are EVs and the ones that are, are mostly all new.

Im not saying EV are dangerous but to compare gas vs electric fires is simply generated news for advertising revenue.
One thing for sure, EV fires ARE dangerous and hard to put out.
This topic has to be revisited in 15 years for more data.

With that said, I would not be buying a gas or electric vehicle based on if I thought there was a fire danger. (it might take me a little bit of time to feel comfy parking an EV in the attached garage though *LOL*), but for someone like me who likes roller coasters I know nothing is going to go wrong except in very rare occasions and the danger is more that I will not wake up in the morning than have a vehicle fire.

Ps, I was very much just recently tempted by a 2022 EV5 with 24k miles... as our second car... I dont know why, just lazy because we dont need a car right now, not excite to go get anything. We tend to start looking around a year or two ahead of time for fun.
 
But the EVs are saving the planet. That is what the Tv told me to believe.
Depends on what channel you're watching. ;) All kidding aside the carnage, cost, and resources used to put out an EV fire usually tops a similar size gas or diesel powered vehicle fire, and I bet it causes a lot more pollution too. As far as getting accurate statistics, good luck with that too.
 
Depends on what channel you're watching. ;) All kidding aside the carnage, cost, and resources used to put out an EV fire usually tops a similar size gas or diesel powered vehicle fire, and I bet it causes a lot more pollution too. As far as getting accurate statistics, good luck with that too.
The issue is not what each fire costs, but the total costs of all the fires. If EV fires are 10% of the fires yet cost 10x what a gas fire costs, the total cost is the same, no?
 
something like number of fires per 1,000 cars sold from 2018 to 2023 or whatever. Or expressed as a percentage, like 0.1% of EVs sold in 2022 caught fire vs 0.08% of ICE (or whatever)
That's the only useful or relevant statistic. Otherwise, it's like criticizing that "Hondas are in more car crashes than Bugattis".
 
The issue is not what each fire costs, but the total costs of all the fires. If EV fires are 10% of the fires yet cost 10x what a gas fire costs, the total cost is the same, no?
You can look at it any way you want I guess. As the shift grows toward more EVs for whatever the reasons may be, there will be more EV fires. The fact still remains EV fires are worse, cost more to put out, use more resources, and pollute more when they burn. I guess another question might be, does anyone care?
 
There is no debate that Electric Vehicles present a unique fire risk compared to gasoline.
I suspect one day, as technology advances they will work out these issues. The fact is undeniable it is a valid concern.
EVEN STATED BY TESLA THEMSELVES. So let's forget about the gasoline vs EV fire risk. EV poses unique problems that need to be worked through if they are ever to take the place of gasoline. Which will never happen but that is my opinion.
There will be an EV but not battery powered that takes over in 100 or so years.

Just because I posted the above does not mean I am against EV's it is clearly a statement related to this thread.

Related to the recent hurricane. Tesla's own guidance confirms the concerns.
"Tesla offers similar advice about avoiding letting its vehicles become submerged if at all possible, but if that does happen the carmaker suggests towing the vehicle at least 50 feet away from structures or anything combustible until it can be inspected by a mechanic."

Source-
https://www.newsmax.com/streettalk/hurricane-floods-evs/2024/09/27/id/1182024/

...
 
I experienced an ICE fire … man … as a sophomore in college? Had a 1973 VW bus I’d bought and was restoring to running condition. I’ll skip the after-action analysis on how it happened, but suffice it to say it was hard to put out. The magnesium engine components melted during the surrounding fire, soaked into the pavement, and then ignited. The street burned down to DIRT. The FD at one point told me they were using more water than a full-sized hotel suite, and then stopped trying to put the van out, due to the magnesium. They kept the surrounding areas wet and let the van burn down. They re-paved the street.

I recognize that’s on outlier - I’ve seen a few American cars burn and they usually don’t burn holes in the pavement.
 
As mentioned above, it is clear as mud.

The reality is that NEW EV's are burning, and mostly old ICE vehicles catch fire.

Crunch the data all we want, EV's are more dangerous when they burn.
There's that, but there's also a lot more fire referenced recalls for ICE vehicles than EVs. I just got my GTI back from VW for a recall involving the suction pump in the fuel tank which is listed as a fire risk. I will say that that I've never heard of a related fire. The only failures I've heard cause tank pressure issues which make it nearly impossible to get fuel in the tank or cause the car to stall. I had no such related issues though.

My F150 had two fire related recalls. One of which was for the engine block heater grounding out. All fire related recalls I've had on ICE vehicles were electrical in nature as an ignition source, or a failure point such as the GTI that did not properly vent gasoline fumes due to a vent that I believe was electrically activated.

I experienced an ICE fire … man … as a sophomore in college? Had a 1973 VW bus I’d bought and was restoring to running condition. I’ll skip the after-action analysis on how it happened, but suffice it to say it was hard to put out. The magnesium engine components melted during the surrounding fire, soaked into the pavement, and then ignited. The street burned down to DIRT. The FD at one point told me they were using more water than a full-sized hotel suite, and then stopped trying to put the van out, due to the magnesium. They kept the surrounding areas wet and let the van burn down. They re-paved the street.

I recognize that’s on outlier - I’ve seen a few American cars burn and they usually don’t burn holes in the pavement.
The only fires I've seen in person were 30-40 year old cars with fuel line failures or oiling related issues on the side of the road. Every one happened in desert conditions when I lived in Phoenix and Las Vegas. Obviously heat was a factor. I've never seen any other ones in person.
 
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