How often can you use a porter cable random orbita
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Once the heavy marks & swirls are removed I would say annually would be safe. Most sealants don't have any cutting power so swirl removal wouldn't be very satisfactory. A product designed to remove the marring used with an orange pad would yield far better results. If you apply wax or sealant via the PC use a black or white finishing pad.
I agree with RTexasF and in fact this is what I do with my cars.
A word of caution though: pad color is manufacturer dependent; there is no industry color standard for cutting, polishing and finishing pads. I believe the pad colors he mentions are the Lake Country pad, and for comparison sake the Meguiar's pads are maroon (cutting), yellow (polishing) and tan (finishing). Just an FYI
A word of caution though: pad color is manufacturer dependent; there is no industry color standard for cutting, polishing and finishing pads. I believe the pad colors he mentions are the Lake Country pad, and for comparison sake the Meguiar's pads are maroon (cutting), yellow (polishing) and tan (finishing). Just an FYI
No orbital polisher will create enough heat to ever burn paint. You could use it daily if you wanted to. You'd do the same thing as applying your wax or sealant by hand.
Now, a high-speed rotary buffer on the other hand, should only be used when necessary to buff swirls and scratches out, and it's something that if left in the hands of a novice, will do more harm than good.
I've been detailing cars for over 20 years, and until recently have never heard of such hype about an orbital polisher. I've never used an orbital for any type of cutting, compounding, or anything except making wax quicker to apply and remove. The cheap Wal-Mart ones work just as well as the more expensive ones. I had a Cyclo twin head orbital back in the day, and it worked well, but I used it more to scrub carpets with the brush attatchment than I did to polish paint. When the motor finally burned up, I threw it out. It was too heavy and slow to really be effective on the exterior. My cheap Chamberlain 11" orbital from Wal-Mart still works well, and gets more done faster than the twin 4" heads could.
Man, I couldn't imagine trying to compound with an orbital! You'd be there all day doing the same thing I could do with my Milwaukee high speed buffer in a couple minutes.
Now, a high-speed rotary buffer on the other hand, should only be used when necessary to buff swirls and scratches out, and it's something that if left in the hands of a novice, will do more harm than good.
I've been detailing cars for over 20 years, and until recently have never heard of such hype about an orbital polisher. I've never used an orbital for any type of cutting, compounding, or anything except making wax quicker to apply and remove. The cheap Wal-Mart ones work just as well as the more expensive ones. I had a Cyclo twin head orbital back in the day, and it worked well, but I used it more to scrub carpets with the brush attatchment than I did to polish paint. When the motor finally burned up, I threw it out. It was too heavy and slow to really be effective on the exterior. My cheap Chamberlain 11" orbital from Wal-Mart still works well, and gets more done faster than the twin 4" heads could.
Man, I couldn't imagine trying to compound with an orbital! You'd be there all day doing the same thing I could do with my Milwaukee high speed buffer in a couple minutes.
GTMike, we aren't talking about the el cheapo 10" orbitals you can pick up for $30 at any auto parts store, but the Porter Cable 7424 DA polisher. No, it certainly doesn't have the cutting power of a rotary but because of that, like you said, it can't burn the paint either which makes it great for a weekend warrior looking to remove mild cobwebbing instilled via poor washing/drying technique or automatic car washes. Couple it with some good pads and a proper polish (whether that be a Meguiar's, Menzerna, 3M, Optimum, etc is up to the user) and you can great results. No, you can't get results as quickly as you can with a rotary, nor can you correct as severe of defects with it than you can with a rotary, but it's an effective and safe alternative in many cases. Especially for a novice.
The links below are to pictures of a car I detailed using this method after said car had spent it's entire 6 year life parked outside, taken to automatic car washes, but otherwise regularly waxed. Everything came out and I never used the rotary. The half & half shot of the hood is especially telling of what can be done with this machine when used properly.
Water spots and cobweb swirl marks[\url]
[url=http://www.fernfactorypictures.com/jo_detailed/bad_scratch.JPG]Scuffs & scratches[\url]
[url=http://www.fernfactorypictures.com/jo_detailed/split_hood.JPG]Half & half[\url]
[url=http://www.fernfactorypictures.com/jo_detailed/hatch_after_close.jpg]Result[\url]
Sorry, I screwed up the links.....here they are (I hope!)
Water spots and cobweb swirl marks
Scuffs & scratches
Half & half
Result
Water spots and cobweb swirl marks
Scuffs & scratches
Half & half
Result
Patman
Staff member
That looks great Mike!! What product(s) did you use?
Thanks! That was a 100% Meguiar's job actually: washed with Gold Class, clayed with the Smooth Surface Clay Kit, then polished with M80 on a W8006 polishing pad and finished with M21 Synthetic Sealant, all using the PC7424. At the time I wasn't what you'd call skilled with a rotary so I used the 7424 so as not to inflict any damage on a vehicle that wasn't mine. No doubt that a rotary would have been faster, but obviously the final results show what can be done with a good dual action polisher.
Patman
Staff member
Those are fantastic results without a doubt, especially since you were just learning! I wasn't feeling that adventurous myself, so I paid a professional $400 to spend 5 hours with the rotary on my car:
http://gtaindetail.com/pics/vette051407/
http://gtaindetail.com/pics/vette051407/
Just to clarify: I feel I am quite proficient with the DA polisher, it's the rotary I'm still developing skills with and, since using that machine incorrectly can easily result in badly damaged paint, I chose not to use it on someone else's car!! That just didn't seem like the right place to experiment, you know!
If you're using a foam pad on a rotary, your likelihood of screwing something up is very unlikely. They don't develop the friction (and therefore heat) of a wool pad, so they're safer than a wool cutting pad, but since they're gentler on paint, they also don't work as well to remove big defects that would require a bit of heat. The biggest thing with a rotary for a novice I've found is making sure to stay away from antennas, mouldings, and anything else that could be torn loose from the car. They're brutal that way.
I've more or less perfected the art of "burnishing" paint...Say you have a car with a lot of pitting and rock chips in the front bumper cover. With a wool pad and the right compound, you can actually heat the paint up enough to get it soft and fill in the little pock marks, and be left with a nearly perfect surface afterwards. People think I'm nuts doing this, but I've never had a problem. What I did to teach myself this method was to intentionally screw up on old cars that were going to the junkyard so that I'd know what not to do on a customer or personal car. When I'm doing this, some paints will actually stink from getting that hot as they come back to life.
I've more or less perfected the art of "burnishing" paint...Say you have a car with a lot of pitting and rock chips in the front bumper cover. With a wool pad and the right compound, you can actually heat the paint up enough to get it soft and fill in the little pock marks, and be left with a nearly perfect surface afterwards. People think I'm nuts doing this, but I've never had a problem. What I did to teach myself this method was to intentionally screw up on old cars that were going to the junkyard so that I'd know what not to do on a customer or personal car. When I'm doing this, some paints will actually stink from getting that hot as they come back to life.
Do you guys that have used the Porter Cable, believe I can get out some water etchings (deep enough to catch a fingernail) I am VERY upset that I have these etchings because I used Zaino routinely and exclusively (every 3-4 months-multiple coats and clayed twice since new, its a 2003) I thought the zaino would protect it from the elements since its outside every waking hour.
you should be able to.
use an orange pad and some meguiars #80
use an orange pad and some meguiars #80
At some point, I'm gonna take the plunge and get a 7424. Can you guys suggest a good product to use with it to get out some cobwebbing and other fine scratches? Looks like the Mazda executive that had this car for its first 2000 miles let some monkeys wash it with sandpaper. They seem to only be present on the hood and the C-pillars. Thanks.
First off, if you can catch a fingernail in any surface defect, whether scratch or etch, you will have a heck of time getting it out with a DA polisher, or even a rotary for that matter. Usually something that severe calls for some light wetsanding followed by a good polish on a rotary to remove the sanding marks.
As for the regular use of Zaino and it's "lack" of protection, keep this in mind: the paint on your car is far, far harder than anything you can pour out of a bottle and wipe on to it. If something (egg, bird droppings, etc) has the ability to etch the paint then nothing, not Zaino, Meguiar's, Collonite, P21S, Natty's, nothing will hold it back. To expect any wax or sealant to be able to do so assumes such a product is somehow tougher than the paint. It simply is not.
Look at this way: how long does the absolutely longest lasting wax/sealant last on your car? 3 months? 6 months? A full year? How long does the paint last? Riiiiight.
Also, to ask for protection from the elements from a film of something that's 1/100th the thickness of a dollar bill is asking a lot. That's also a good place to point out that the common myth that a paste wax lasts longer than a liquid is just that...A myth. All you're doing when you apply a thick paste wax is waiting longer for it to dry, and removing more excess product. There's only so much product that can be bonded to the painted surface, and by applying more is just wasting product and time.
All you need is a thin, even coat of whatever product you prefer, and it will do the job just as well as if you gobbed it on and spent 10 times as long to remove all the excess product.
All you need is a thin, even coat of whatever product you prefer, and it will do the job just as well as if you gobbed it on and spent 10 times as long to remove all the excess product.
the trick is, thin layers and allowing it to cure. Then applying new layers on top =)
Wax/Sealant mainly protects against oxidation and sun/water damage period. It might buy you a little time to wash your bird terd off the car, but in the end minerals, acid from tar and bird stuff, will etch the paint. As for how many times you can polish, I would estimate 50 to 100 if you are talking something low on the abrasives scale. You could proably even get 50 out of a rotary if your careful and your low on the scale, like ZPC-ZAIO-FPII-GPEC-AIO- etc.
Second part of question, no you cannot remove swirls w/o being abrasive period, applying a wax/sealant with a machine will not remove swirls. There are some "cleaner" waxes which may get them, but they are somewhat abrasive and usually don't have the same durabilty as a straight sealant/wax. I would highly recommend Zaino ZAIO, that is a cleaner wax that can get swirls and has very nice durabilty. It's the exception to the rule, and is also a nice base for whatever wax or sealant you want to use as a topper if you choose. To be honest, I find myself just washing my car and machining in ZAIO and that's it. I do this about every two months. When it gets hot I follow with Zaino CS, and it is a real real easy process and has good results. These are just suggestions, it's more important to get the process down rather than having a specific product, but... there are some products that make it harder.
If you can feel it with your nail substancially, you will not get it out with polishing, at a minimum you will need to wetsand and more likely your looking at touchup or panel repaint.
Second part of question, no you cannot remove swirls w/o being abrasive period, applying a wax/sealant with a machine will not remove swirls. There are some "cleaner" waxes which may get them, but they are somewhat abrasive and usually don't have the same durabilty as a straight sealant/wax. I would highly recommend Zaino ZAIO, that is a cleaner wax that can get swirls and has very nice durabilty. It's the exception to the rule, and is also a nice base for whatever wax or sealant you want to use as a topper if you choose. To be honest, I find myself just washing my car and machining in ZAIO and that's it. I do this about every two months. When it gets hot I follow with Zaino CS, and it is a real real easy process and has good results. These are just suggestions, it's more important to get the process down rather than having a specific product, but... there are some products that make it harder.
If you can feel it with your nail substancially, you will not get it out with polishing, at a minimum you will need to wetsand and more likely your looking at touchup or panel repaint.
Most polishes/waxes/sealants will self-clean thru the first layer though. There's only a select few that have proven they build up layers. Liquid Glass is one, Zaino is another.
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