How much junk does an oil filter catch?

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I have owned my 2008 Honda Accord EX-L V6 sedan since new. Did first oil change at 7.2K (15% on OLM as per Honda owner's manual). Subsequent oil changes at 7.5-8K with synthetic oils (Mobil 1, PP, PU, Redline... all 5W-20). Inside the oil filler cap engine appears pristine. 45K on the engine now.

My question, in this situation, how much junk will actually be captured by an oil filter during an oil change interval. Seems that no sludge is being cleaned off and it would be only combustion byproducts.

Guess the reason for my question is, do I really need a filter that captures a ton of junk like a Bosch Distance plus, or a Mobil 1?
 
Or you can do oil analysis. You need the filter to catch any particle that is larger than one that can flow in and out of a bearing without causing damage. Many oil filters are rated at 20 microns, although that rating is not very consistent and its qualified with a % and single/multi-pass. Some install bypass filters to catch even more particles.

I buy the Amsoil Ea filter as I think its the best there is for normal vehicles. The shipping on an Ea filter is probably more than a SuperTech filter costs. But I like the idea that I have installed the best filter available and hopefully it makes a difference.
 
I am not sure how to properly articulate my question, but what determines the size of particulate matter that the filter needs to capture? Combustion byproducts = small particles? Sludge removal, poor air filtration = large particles? (note, these are guesses). I am assuming that the age and condition of the engine matters, as well.
 
Honda, pristine looking engine, well maintained engine, need a BDP or M1, probably not.

P1 says it holds 13 grams and tries to give you something to compare it to, in his case nails, nuts, paper clips. Silly perhaps, but it does give the average joe something they can relate to.

The BDP says it holds 29 grams, more than double. Like myself, you could consider running the BD+ (or M1) for two OCI's. It is Honda's recommendation even with their Fram made A-02 which has less media than a P1. IMO, you could run the P1 two OCI's and never know the difference engine life/wear-wise. But, with deals/rebates the P1 is so inexpensive using a new P1 each time for full MM% seems to make more sense.

BTW, I own an 07 3.0L Accord and have run a P1 to full MM% (~10%) the last two OCI's, one was the 1 year max. Currently running a BD+ and PP, as said, may run the filter two OCI's.
 
Same car, virtually the same miles. Using Wix filter with OCI's at 4500 miles with Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 oil. Air filter changes every 15k miles. I can't see that using a quality oil/filter and with an eye to maintenance as you have done is going to create a situation where there's a lot of gunk in there.
Of greater concern may be an issue with misfire/early spark plug replacement, sometimes due to poor valve stem seals or incorrectly installed oil rings. You can find this online and also discussed in BITOG.
I just replaced all plugs at 44K miles due to slowly increasing rough idle but no CEL. Upon inspection #3 plug was the worse, closely followed by #1,2,4. #5.6 were generally ok. Based on operation of the VCM system this seems to be in line with what could be encountered. I have sent info to American Honda and am following up with the dealer to document possible issue.
Not saying this is the case for you, but worth mentioning. The car has been flawless and I was disappointed to see the plug conditions.
 
It never occurred to me before, but if we're looking at microns, we'd need a microscope to see something! Anybody want to try that?

And... I think the things we're looking for would be drowned in droplets of oil... hard to see.
 
Originally Posted By: Mud
Same car, virtually the same miles. Using Wix filter with OCI's at 4500 miles with Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 oil. Air filter changes every 15k miles. I can't see that using a quality oil/filter and with an eye to maintenance as you have done is going to create a situation where there's a lot of gunk in there.
Of greater concern may be an issue with misfire/early spark plug replacement, sometimes due to poor valve stem seals or incorrectly installed oil rings. You can find this online and also discussed in BITOG.
I just replaced all plugs at 44K miles due to slowly increasing rough idle but no CEL. Upon inspection #3 plug was the worse, closely followed by #1,2,4. #5.6 were generally ok. Based on operation of the VCM system this seems to be in line with what could be encountered. I have sent info to American Honda and am following up with the dealer to document possible issue.
Not saying this is the case for you, but worth mentioning. The car has been flawless and I was disappointed to see the plug conditions.


Knock on wood, I have not experienced any deterioration in idle. Very smooth hot or cold. Smooth idle at start up and acceleration. I have read about this issue.

I am not trying to "cheap out" on filters, but why spend $6 if the $3 will do equally as good a job. Sometimes I just over think things.
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Originally Posted By: Donald
I buy the Amsoil Ea filter as I think its the best there is for normal vehicles. The shipping on an Ea filter is probably more than a SuperTech filter costs. But I like the idea that I have installed the best filter available and hopefully it makes a difference.


I won't buy any Amsoil filters any more since they had the oil starvation problems two years ago.

http://www.sinwal.com/data/TSB_FL-2009-05-01_Toyota1.pdf
 
im thinking the napa platinum is a close competitor to amsoil's. especially considering the price.
i have used amsoil filters for a while but consider the money im looking elsewhere. i also feel they should put out more info on their filters like royal purple or napas or p1.
 
Originally Posted By: MajorCavalry
I am not sure how to properly articulate my question, but what determines the size of particulate matter that the filter needs to capture? Combustion byproducts = small particles? Sludge removal, poor air filtration = large particles? (note, these are guesses). I am assuming that the age and condition of the engine matters, as well.



The answer to your questions is you won't know what contaminant you have for your specific engine unless you send every filter back to a lab and let them run a life/efficiency test on the filter along with testing the residual oil.

Your oil filter is a dumb system. It only sees what the oil brings to it.

Where the contaminant comes from is irrelevant to the filter itself. It could be combustion, it could be normal wear within the engine, it could be abnormal engine wear, it could be from the engine coolant not doing it's job and to much heat. The filter element doesn't care. It's job is to protect the engine.

As the filter is there to remove particles smaller than the limit of visibility at 20/20 you won't see what it removes. Sludge is nice to look at when you cut a filter open( not really, lol) but the element is doing more than stopping sludge.

So when you cut a filter open and it appears clean, it isn't.

Better efficient filters will take out more particles. Higher dirt holding capacity will allow longer changes between oil. There is a trade off between the two depending on what the OEM requires. Consumers as well can choose which way they want to go as evident by the variety of choices in the marketplace.
 
Q: How much junk does an oil filter catch?
A: Depends ...

Depends upon the filter media of each particular brand and model of filter. Most manufatures offer different options for "good, better, best" type folks.

Depends upon the contaminant loading of the oil. How dirty is the engine to start with? How dirty does it tend to run? How often or well is it maintained? A filter can only catch what is thrown it's way. An average filter can look like a hero catching a lot of "junk" in a system full of trash. Conversely, a great filter can look mediocre if there's not much to catch in a clean system.

Depends upon the level of contaminant you're viewing (2um, 10um, 25um, etc). "Normal" full flow filters don't catch many (if any) 3um particles, but they will catch most (if not all) of the 40um particles. Your question does not define the size paricle, so the answer cannot be adequantly defined. Beta ratios are a great way to even the field of judgement.

The "better" one defines the question, the "better" the answer can be.
 
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Length of oil change cycle, your engines age/condition are determining factors in filter selection,i.e. whether you're doing a system clean, etc. Usually the longer the oil change interval the more capacity you'd want to consider when selecting a filter. Most filters would do fine at 7500 miles under normal service.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Q: How much junk does an oil filter catch?
A: Depends ...

Depends upon the filter media of each particular brand and model of filter. Most manufatures offer different options for "good, better, best" type folks.


Depends upon the contaminant loading of the oil. How dirty is the engine to start with? How dirty does it tend to run? How often or well is it maintained? A filter can only catch what is thrown it's way. An average filter can look like a hero catching a lot of "junk" in a system full of trash. Conversely, a great filter can look mediocre if there's not much to catch in a clean system.

Depends upon the level of contaminant you're viewing (2um, 10um, 25um, etc). "Normal" full flow filters don't catch many (if any) 3um particles, but they will catch most (if not all) of the 40um particles. Your question does not define the size paricle, so the answer cannot be adequantly defined. Beta ratios are a great way to even the field of judgement.

The "better" one defines the question, the "better" the answer can be.





I want to touch base on the two bits highlighted.

Good, better, best. And beta ratios.

There are consumers who research like [censored] and are told inexpensive HDMI cables work just as well as high dollar Monster cables. Testing by some labs and independent tests, if you read online, show this to be the case. And then there are the consumers who swear their inexpensive cables are great.

So what's this to do with good, better, best. OEM's set the guidelines on what performance they want out of their filter and oil. All filters built in the USA meet or exceed those specs.

Now do you want a 4cyl engine, 6 cyl, or 8cyl one? Everyone one of these will do 70mph on the highway. Good, better, best? All filters will perform based on the OEM's requirements.

Sure it's great to flex your muscles and think yours is better than the next guy. But do you really know how many 10 micron particles are in your oil and how your filter really performs. And is it the 10 micron particles you really need to remove in order to reduce engine wear? Or is it the 15? Or is it the 5? Or is it the 25?

In theory a 10 micron beta 75 rated element regardless of manufacturer would perform the same. True if efficiency is your only criteria. Contaminant capacity and how your relief valve works are also part of the equation. Considering relief valves are always + or - there can be wide variances not only within manufacturers but versus competition.

Consumers going beyond recommended oil change intervals and using better or best elements based on filtration ratings have little idea on contaminant capacity for their special beta ratio'd element and if their filter is loading up so that the relief valve is in an open condition much longer than someone using a less efficient filter. So is having unfiltered oil more damaging than better/best filtered oil at the same time? And as you can not see contaminant how do you know? Yes you can see sludgy oil but people with sludgy oil may not be candidates for better/best filtration.

Those consumers doing oil analysis ( of which i am one), using a quality filter*, making sure they change their oil with plenty of safety factor built in if they are extending drain intervals ( as i do), starting when the vehicle engine is new are generally in very good shape.



* quality filter. people ask me what I have used--STP or Super Tech. If I had a high performance vehicle i'd opt for the Mobile M1 type. Unless I had a Corvette, in which case i'd use the OEM as Champ builds that and it's very good.
 
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