How much better is a good, well proven, expensive synthetic than the cheapest API approved conventional oil of the same viscosity, say a 5w30? And I'm asking about better in the context of say, moderate weather, very few days near freezing, never below, and high temps never above 100F, 50/50 mix of highway and city driving and 15k miles a year. And, lets pick a car, say a 3 year old Toyota Camry, just hitting 45k miles. Any difference, with a target price of $2 for conventional and $4-6 for synthetic.
How much better?
- Thread starter LarryL
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
You didn't spec a duration of use. I agree with those that say that there is little advantage under your conditions under (what most term) normal OCIs. To justify synthetics you either have to be in some type of severe service ..or a longer service ..or both.
The only advantage I can otherwise see, and this goes out of the confines of your "specs", is that a synthetic can possibly afford you to go to a heavier weight without suffering as much in terms of cold viscosity over dinos.
The only advantage I can otherwise see, and this goes out of the confines of your "specs", is that a synthetic can possibly afford you to go to a heavier weight without suffering as much in terms of cold viscosity over dinos.
When picking an oil I whittle it down to 4 factors.
1. Wear
2. Cleanliness
3. Length of OCI
4. Resistance to excessive heat
To me, synthetic wins in items 2-4. For no. 1 it is a toss-up.
Depends on how much you are willing to spend on oil, and how long you plan on keeping your vehicle.
1. Wear
2. Cleanliness
3. Length of OCI
4. Resistance to excessive heat
To me, synthetic wins in items 2-4. For no. 1 it is a toss-up.
Depends on how much you are willing to spend on oil, and how long you plan on keeping your vehicle.
Three things to remember: sludge monster? driving time? OCI's? With relatively short OCI, say 3 to 4K, then conventional will serve you well with no damage to anything. When you want to run extended OCI's, that's when you start looking at synthetics.
I don't buy syn lub produces better mpg than dino.
If any syn could prove it , they would use it for advertizing since even a 2 % improvement in mpg would pay for the syn.
I think you can get 2% for syn trannie and diff lubes over dino and I use them for that application.
If any syn could prove it , they would use it for advertizing since even a 2 % improvement in mpg would pay for the syn.
I think you can get 2% for syn trannie and diff lubes over dino and I use them for that application.
Well, I think that a true synthetic like Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance, which is not made from conventional oil, wins on all four of the following counts:
1. Engine wear
2. Cleanliness (keeping the engine clean)
3. Length of OCI
4. Resistance to excessive heat
In addition, you get better, faster, and easier cold weather startups, and the oil circulates faster at startup in cold weather and thus there's less engine wear during cold weather startups. It gets to -30 F or more below at least once each winter where I live. I've gone through 3 winters since 1963 when, for 29-31 straight days the temp NEVER got above 0 degrees F, not even during the day, and during the night it was
-10 to -40 below every night. I've seen a lot of winters where that kind of thing happened for a stretch of a few days to a week or more, and sometimes more than once during the winter. Synthetic oil is a real plus in such weather. Syn oil, plus a battery in excellent condition with
100-200 more cold cranking amps than the stock battery had, is often the difference between the engine starting and not starting. And there's sometimes serious consequences to a non-start. For example, if you're out in the boonies and not near any house or town.
1. Engine wear
2. Cleanliness (keeping the engine clean)
3. Length of OCI
4. Resistance to excessive heat
In addition, you get better, faster, and easier cold weather startups, and the oil circulates faster at startup in cold weather and thus there's less engine wear during cold weather startups. It gets to -30 F or more below at least once each winter where I live. I've gone through 3 winters since 1963 when, for 29-31 straight days the temp NEVER got above 0 degrees F, not even during the day, and during the night it was
-10 to -40 below every night. I've seen a lot of winters where that kind of thing happened for a stretch of a few days to a week or more, and sometimes more than once during the winter. Synthetic oil is a real plus in such weather. Syn oil, plus a battery in excellent condition with
100-200 more cold cranking amps than the stock battery had, is often the difference between the engine starting and not starting. And there's sometimes serious consequences to a non-start. For example, if you're out in the boonies and not near any house or town.
While i'm sure there are some examples that don't follow the rules, i suspect your right. In most cases sludge-prone cars were cars that due to design were indeed prone to sludge *if* proper service intervals were not followed. The vast majority of owners never had problems.
Do you have a 4cyl or 6cyl? Also, I'd be interested if you could look in your owners manual and see what the recomended oil is. I only ask because I know at some point, Toyota changed the oil change intervels from 7K to 5K. While I agree that that failure to change the oil on time caused oil sludge (I hate that work because it gets thrown around too much) more like over heating and baking the oil till it becomes goo. I don't belive that Toyota is 100% not at fault in it's V6 VVTi engines and oil problems.
If you have a supposed v6 sludge prone engine, I would not go any longer then 5K miles on oil changes. Your owners manual might say 7K miles from three years ago. Our 05 service is due at 5K miles.
Yep, m2200b hit it. This example car should be a prime candidate for extended oci with a good synthetic, but you can't do it and keep the warranty. I know there is the argument that they have to prove you wrong, but following the manual is the sure way. Synthetic looses that battle, for a lot of people. The coupon price for Chevron shot up to $0.58/quart and the coupon price for Purolator filters is about a buck. That means that a driveway mechanic like me could do an oil change for about $4.00 (4qts+1 filter+sales tax). At the other end would by Mobil 1 Extended Performance at say $6.00/quart and a Mobil 1 filter, of course, that comes to $24.00 + $12.00+sales tax would be just a bit over $30.00. You could, if you did it yourself change the Chevron every 3 months or 3k miles, and would you get the same protection, for saving a little over $20.00, assuming your labor and the mess you make is free?
It is possible to raise your MPG just a little using synthetic. I wouldn't buy anything more expensive then the supertech synthetics sold at Walmart for a Toyota Camery. With 5 quart jugs and Super Tech oil filter, it cost about $15 a DIY oil change. Maybe a tad more with tax. If you only drive 15,000 miles a year, then that's only around $45. Not too bad for ownership upkeep cost.
We have a 05 Corolla 5sp rated at 41MPG HWY and I use the Super Tech syn stuff in it. We hit 43MPG once and we got stuck in rush our traffic leaving Chicago, so part of that tank was in stop and go traffic for about 45min. The rest was almost all HWY. Other Corolla owners have reported as much as 45MPG on newer Corolla's when running synthetic oil.
Whatever oil you choose to go with, change at 5K miles to keep your powertrain warranty.
Synthetic oil might not be needed, but I want to see how many miles this engine is truly good for
I used to use the regular supertech in a older car and it ran just as smooth as any other oil I have used.
You don't really need to get in to the expensive stuff unless you have a high performance car, drive like you have a high performance car all day long, or deal with extreme climents.
In some cars like Porsche, the newer Vetts, and I think even the Mitsu EVO have Mobil 1 labled on the oil cap. I don't know if you would acually void your warranty ( I havn't read the warranty book for any of the listed car), but Mobil 1 is the recomended oil for many sports cars now days. Some of BMW high end sports cars too.
All the Toyota dealers I've seen use Valvoline oil.
btw, if you want to give Super Tech syn a try and can't find 5-30, email wal-mart (find the contact link off of walmart.com) and request that the oil be sent to your local wal-mart. If you try and call your local wal-mart, you will wast every minuet of your life from the time you pick up the phone untill the time you hang up the phone. Nothing good will happen in the time used to call a wal-mart store. You will just want that part of your life back.
We have a 05 Corolla 5sp rated at 41MPG HWY and I use the Super Tech syn stuff in it. We hit 43MPG once and we got stuck in rush our traffic leaving Chicago, so part of that tank was in stop and go traffic for about 45min. The rest was almost all HWY. Other Corolla owners have reported as much as 45MPG on newer Corolla's when running synthetic oil.
Whatever oil you choose to go with, change at 5K miles to keep your powertrain warranty.
Synthetic oil might not be needed, but I want to see how many miles this engine is truly good for
You don't really need to get in to the expensive stuff unless you have a high performance car, drive like you have a high performance car all day long, or deal with extreme climents.
In some cars like Porsche, the newer Vetts, and I think even the Mitsu EVO have Mobil 1 labled on the oil cap. I don't know if you would acually void your warranty ( I havn't read the warranty book for any of the listed car), but Mobil 1 is the recomended oil for many sports cars now days. Some of BMW high end sports cars too.
All the Toyota dealers I've seen use Valvoline oil.
btw, if you want to give Super Tech syn a try and can't find 5-30, email wal-mart (find the contact link off of walmart.com) and request that the oil be sent to your local wal-mart. If you try and call your local wal-mart, you will wast every minuet of your life from the time you pick up the phone untill the time you hang up the phone. Nothing good will happen in the time used to call a wal-mart store. You will just want that part of your life back.
Chances are most drivers will sell their cars before they reach 200K. Any decent inexpensive name-brand dino (Superflo, Shell Formula, Motorcraft, etc...) "should" take you 200K (or even twice that)with regular oil changes in a modern fuel injected non-turbo, non supercharged, non sludge-prone car.
My previous car was running perfect, no oil leaks, no oil burned, no problems at all when i sold it at 225,000 miles. All on a steady diet of Valvoline conventional.
From the sound of it, your camry, driven 15K a year in california should do fine on a diet of a decent 5w30 like superflo, havoline, motorcraft, etc. All decent under 2.00 oils.
Now if you decide to buy something with a turbo, or anything from germany or sweden, or decide to take your car street racing every friday night, my recommendation might change
My previous car was running perfect, no oil leaks, no oil burned, no problems at all when i sold it at 225,000 miles. All on a steady diet of Valvoline conventional.
From the sound of it, your camry, driven 15K a year in california should do fine on a diet of a decent 5w30 like superflo, havoline, motorcraft, etc. All decent under 2.00 oils.
Now if you decide to buy something with a turbo, or anything from germany or sweden, or decide to take your car street racing every friday night, my recommendation might change
In my case, the oil expenses constitute 1.23% of the per-mile ownership cost in case of Havoline dino at 3k miles OCI. It goes to a whopping 2.04% with Mobil 1 at 6k OCI, exactly 2% with GC.
To me, the difference is negligible, and that's not where real savings are. That assuming there are no other real benefits in using synthetic oil, which is not correct.
So, it does not matter. Use whatever bottle you like most.
To me, the difference is negligible, and that's not where real savings are. That assuming there are no other real benefits in using synthetic oil, which is not correct.
So, it does not matter. Use whatever bottle you like most.
Today, given your conditions and a non-sludgemonster, as others has commented, probably no significant advantage other than the slightest of MPG improvement and the possibility of a longer OCI if the syn is better at combating oxidation and the NOACK is considerably lower.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked