How long is this 'end' going to drag on for?

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: rszappa1
This is the post that never ends...It goes on and on my friend....


Probably because GM will keep on going and going and losing $$ and losing $$.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Some people, started trolling it, not caring what it was,
And they'll just keep on trolling it forever just because...

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: kelpie
GM made the mistake of specializing in trucks and SUVs, because they were more popular and profitable at the time. I really can't blame them for that, the Volt will be a hit.


After the oil shocks of the 1970's they ignored the concept of "peak oil" which for an auto company is pretty stoopid. They even started hybrid development in the 1980's which is what motivated Toyota to develop the Prius and Honda to make the Insight. GM then scrapped the program.

in order to grow the SUV business.

As for the Volt...a $40k hybrid? You can buy a Honda insight and have enough money left over for gas for 200,000 miles of driving at $4/gallon. So the Volt will be way overpriced against the competition. Add the limited cruising range of the Volt..you now have another GM white elephant in the making.

Why will people buy it, you say? Because it is the next stage of green. There are people waiting to buy this car. Many Eco-weenies are drooling over it.

Like the Toyota before it, it will be a status car.


That's why. Any questions?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Our grid can not handle very much electric cars.

Plus I wish some of these Eco-weenies would figure out where electricity comes from... (hint. Not the electric fairy)

Until they sign on and we have BUILT nuke power plants, electric cars are out of the picture. (and don't tell me about wind power, solar panels or hydro dams as the weenies have a fit about those)

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: kelpie
GM made the mistake of specializing in trucks and SUVs, because they were more popular and profitable at the time. I really can't blame them for that, the Volt will be a hit.


After the oil shocks of the 1970's they ignored the concept of "peak oil" which for an auto company is pretty stoopid. They even started hybrid development in the 1980's which is what motivated Toyota to develop the Prius and Honda to make the Insight. GM then scrapped the program.

in order to grow the SUV business.

As for the Volt...a $40k hybrid? You can buy a Honda insight and have enough money left over for gas for 200,000 miles of driving at $4/gallon. So the Volt will be way overpriced against the competition. Add the limited cruising range of the Volt..you now have another GM white elephant in the making.

Why will people buy it, you say? Because it is the next stage of green. There are people waiting to buy this car. Many Eco-weenies are drooling over it.

Like the Toyota before it, it will be a status car.


That's why. Any questions?

When they see the price tag...true eco weenies will run for the hills.....it will go the way of the Edsel. Only status freaks will buy it as eco weenies not only save fuel they usually save lots of money as well.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
After the oil shocks of the 1970's they ignored the concept of "peak oil" which for an auto company is pretty stoopid.


On the surface it would seem so. The oil shocks of the 70's evaporated Chrysler's chassis production for motorhomes. They went from (from memory) like 25k units the year before to 2800 units in the midst of the crisis. That's not a retreat, that's a disappearance of a market.

GM had to make what PAID at the moment. The American public can't manage to pay for "advanced" domestic iron.

I predict (and for all I know it's already occurred) that something like the Pontiac Solstice will die within a few years. It will either not have enough mass appeal to pay for itself (too low production levels) ..or be bypassed for Euro or Asian manufacturers that have done it so much better in the past.

Everything has to fit too many lifestyles/wallets to keep the trains on time.

GM is a fully loaded super tanker traveling at 13 knots. It takes a full 13 miles to come to a stop. Doing market slalom just isn't gonna work.

 

[hal]

I think it's unfortunate, but probably the only option for GM at this point is bankruptcy, otherwise this whole issue is never gonna die. Option 2 would be they come out with an amazing car that lots of people like AND cut union benefits at the same time.

 

[hal]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Our grid can not handle very much electric cars.

Plus I wish some of these Eco-weenies would figure out where electricity comes from... (hint. Not the electric fairy)

Until they sign on and we have BUILT nuke power plants, electric cars are out of the picture. (and don't tell me about wind power, solar panels or hydro dams as the weenies have a fit about those)



also i agree with this post. we should really be building nuclear power plants mainly because they can generate SO MUCH electricity, as well as more renewable tech also. then electric cars would be viable, and that would be great for GM

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

GM had to make what PAID at the moment. The American public can't manage to pay for "advanced" domestic iron.


What most people don't know is that GM made some of the first hybrids back in the 1980's and then abandoned the program and scrapped the cars. Toyota found out about it and started development on the prius. GM had Federal funding...Toyota used their own R&D budget. GM quit for the allure of huge SUV profits while Toyota kept their focus on the future.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

GM had to make what PAID at the moment. The American public can't manage to pay for "advanced" domestic iron.


What most people don't know is that GM made some of the first hybrids back in the 1980's and then abandoned the program and scrapped the cars. Toyota found out about it and started development on the prius. GM had Federal funding...Toyota used their own R&D budget. GM quit for the allure of huge SUV profits while Toyota kept their focus on the future.


The Prius development was paid for by the Japanese government, Toyota did NOT foot the bill.

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Our grid can not handle very much electric cars.

Plus I wish some of these Eco-weenies would figure out where electricity comes from... (hint. Not the electric fairy)

Until they sign on and we have BUILT nuke power plants, electric cars are out of the picture. (and don't tell me about wind power, solar panels or hydro dams as the weenies have a fit about those)


The grid can handle electric cars. They will charge at night during off peak hours. Still less polluting than a gas engine.

 

[javacontour]

I think electrics have their place, for town cars that don't do more than say 40 miles/day.

As you rightly said, they can charge on the grid at night.

I can also see them used in places like intermodal stations. Electric tractors that pick up trailers and haul them around. If they have regenerative braking, much of the energy used to get the load moving can be recovered when bringing the load to a stop. Places like that as well as electrical vehicles in warehouses would be a great application of that technology.

However, those who travel greater distances would be better served by a gas/electric hybrid that can switch to fossil fuels for longer trips, charge it's batteries off the grid when needed or when further away from the home charging station, etc.

When I look at what I do, cover a service area that is a radius of 150 miles, a pure electric would not suit my needs.

Even a hybrid is not really helpful since much of my driving is highway.

Perhaps a hybrid with a diesel engine instead of gasoline is better suited for what I do, perhaps variable displacement diesel, to use they electric around town, and as much diesel displacement as is needed on the highway because of diesel's better efficiency.

But I do think the grid has to be updated at some point if we use more and more electricity for transportation. Not only power generation, but also the capacity to transmit that power.

The grid in many points is stretched to it's limits. In those areas, more capacity is needed.

 

[opus1]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

GM had to make what PAID at the moment. The American public can't manage to pay for "advanced" domestic iron.


What most people don't know is that GM made some of the first hybrids back in the 1980's and then abandoned the program and scrapped the cars. Toyota found out about it and started development on the prius. GM had Federal funding...Toyota used their own R&D budget. GM quit for the allure of huge SUV profits while Toyota kept their focus on the future.


I dunno, there are some who think Toyota had a little help....

Did Toyota REALLY pay R&D Costs?

Pay particular attention to paragraph 4 in the section labeled "Analysis".

A country that dumped steel and other products on the US market would never try to use unfair tactics to give their auto industry an edge....right?

 

[Kernel Potter]

George Will had an article about a month and a half ago in which he pointed out that an owner of a major Southern California Toyota dealership said that selling all the SUVs, Camry's etc. is what paid for the losses Toyota incurred selling the Prius.

That's about as good proof as we're probably going to get since we'll never see Toyotas books. Of course over the years I read it often from many sources, that no one could see how Toyota is making money on the Prius.

So here we have Toyota working closely and benefitting from government assistence, recently getting a $2 billion dollar loan from the government of Japan, who was setting up a special bank for huge exporters like Toyota and Sony and getting health care paid for by the Japanese government. In our country that'd be multiple $billions per year for the automakers alone in "toyota-style assistance". Yet we worship how great and successful Toyota is as an automaker.

If GM, Ford and Chryler started getting those benefits we'd start going nuts at how socialist they(and we) are. Which goes to show how willing we are to cut off are own head. We funnel billions of dollars to Japan buying their worshipped products to help pay for their wages, healthcare and infrastructure, while if our USA companies even think of operating the same way, we demonize them and celebrate their failures as a result. And as a result of that, wealth creation goes flying over seas. Wealth Creation; the thing that pays for wages, infrastructure and our huge military. Now we have the bank of China instead.

One thing is for sure, if we want GM, Ford and Chrylser to be more like Toyota and Honda, they certainly CAN'T get rid of the unions. Wow! Look! 5 months of bonuses for those dumb nut tighteners and the horror of managers getting their bonuses cut!

"Toyota will offer 1.86 million yen as an annual bonus, failing to meet the request from its union for the first time in 10 years. Its union last month requested annual bonus of 1.96 million yen on average.

Tokyo-based Honda offered an annual bonus equivalent to five months of pay. The carmaker’s union asked for 5.5 months of salary.

Manager Bonuses Cut

Nissan, which expects its first loss in nine years, offered workers 6,000 yen a month instead of the 10,000 yen the union requested, it said in a statement today. It will give a bonus of 4.2 months, compared with its union’s request of 5.2 months. The union represents Nissan 28,081 workers in Japan."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aEd92G0My9eM&refer=asia

 

[hal]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: kelpie
GM made the mistake of specializing in trucks and SUVs, because they were more popular and profitable at the time. I really can't blame them for that, the Volt will be a hit.


After the oil shocks of the 1970's they ignored the concept of "peak oil" which for an auto company is pretty stoopid. They even started hybrid development in the 1980's which is what motivated Toyota to develop the Prius and Honda to make the Insight. GM then scrapped the program.

in order to grow the SUV business.

As for the Volt...a $40k hybrid? You can buy a Honda insight and have enough money left over for gas for 200,000 miles of driving at $4/gallon. So the Volt will be way overpriced against the competition. Add the limited cruising range of the Volt..you now have another GM white elephant in the making.

GM needs a complete re-tooling in top brand mnagement...watch & see...after the bailout...more SUV's.


If the Volt is $40k, GM will have failed on this car before it even hits the dealerships. Sure, some smug hybrid-hippies and status-seekers will buy it, but at that price most people will go with a less costly hybrid. And that's going to have a huge impact on GM's sales. Lithium polymer/ion batteries and a big DC electric motor do not justify this price for what will likely be a mid-sized sub-luxury vehicle.

 

[Tempest]

Gov. is offering $7500 tax credit (subsidy) to entice people to buy the volt no one wants.

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Gov. is offering $7500 tax credit (subsidy) to entice people to buy the volt no one wants.


I'd have one. It's the only "hybrid" I'd even consider, but I'd certainly be happier if it didn't include any gas engine at all. An electric car is the perfect commuter vehicle. I don't even drive half of its range going to work and back.

I'm happy to tell Toyota and Honda where they can stick their hybrids...

 

[psiclone]

What we need is socialized medicine. Health care costs are killing all American industries. Why do you think in the last ten years everything has been outsourced. We need to tax any company that does business the same amount no matter where there headquarters are?

What I would like to see is a partnership between the Department of Energy and GM. I used to work for the DOE labs and they have some very smart people there. I think America can build an electric car that is fun to drive. Think electric Pontiac G8GT. Imagine the torque!!