How long do electric car batteries last?

[goblin]

...Does the battery have to completely fail to be covered ...

The standard for the brands that actually publish a threshold is 70% retention. The warranty for the electric part on a hybrid is usually higher than for the ICE powertrain. Except for HyunKia, where the powertrain is already at 10yrs/100k miles.

Add that in some states, the electric parts have an even longer warranty. 150k miles in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, Washington.

 

[jghall00]

My SIL has a Rav4. I encouraged her to look at a hybrid because I was familiar with her driving habits. She can drive to her daughters house about two miles away at residential speeds mostly on battery power. She does this every school day to pick up her grandkids at the school bus stop. She's absolutely giddy about her fuel savings. The battery power is also a major factor in getting the vehicle moving which further accounts for its efficiency. Losing the ability to do either pretty much defeats the purpose of a hybrid. If at some point the battery cannot retain an adequate charge doesn't that compromise a hybrid vehicle?

It depends on the type of hybrid. Some hybrids use the battery to supplement the engine power. For these the engine is nearly always running, so there's not much load being shift except during acceleration. A plug in hybrid uses the battery until exhausted so mpg would suffer much more if the battery degrades.

 

[Ctopher]

There is a setting where it will try to keep the car centered in the lane. Make sure that is tuned off. I'm not talking about autopilot. I don't remember what it's called.
If it is turned on, it will feel like the wind is buffeting you.

You were dead on! I looked and disabled the Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance and that was it. With it on or warning it seemed to force the car perfectly center of lane which feels like wind buffeting the car around at 85mph. I guess I keep a more straight line of the road while keeping within my lane. I also noticed it doing the follow the lane perfectly in my usual neighborhood roads that the wheel was constantly turning compared to my driving with minor adjustments.

And for those that haven’t seen or tried a Tesla FSD, I’m not talking about cutting lanes but keeping it perfectly centered when you could slice the lane and be straight.

 

[nobb]

IMO the problem with these reports of high mileage EVS still retaining 90%+ of their battery capacity is that it is usually on relatively new vehicles. It does not necessarily address the fact that Li-Ion also succumbs to calendar aging. I'd be curious under normal driving habits, how the battery holds up after 15-20+ years.

 

[505kind]

My 2012 Prius oil burner hybrid battery gave up the ghost @ 135k. Replacement battery from green bean.

The other day @ 165k the main water pump and coolant temp sensor went out. It damaged some of the cells in the hybrid battery and with a lifetime warranty they want $640+ tax to replace it.

I’m a pro tech. You can replace individual cells for $34 each/shipped refurbished.

The water pump & coolant sensor are done. If you own one do not use anything but oem Japanese made Aisin.

 

[zzyzzx]

The how long do they last wouldn't be so much of an issue if EV and hybrid batteries were standardized like regular 12V car batteries that you can buy anywhere from multiple manufacturers.

 

[goblin]

IMO the problem with these reports of high mileage EVS still retaining 90%+ of their battery capacity is that it is usually on relatively new vehicles. It does not necessarily address the fact that Li-Ion also succumbs to calendar aging. I'd be curious under normal driving habits, how the battery holds up after 15-20+ years.

If the NYC Parks dept is any indication, they sold their fleet of first gen priuses at gov auctions just before the pandemic. All were beaters, seen heavy use, and were functional.

 

[PandaBear]

Xiaomi battery degradation article.

https://electrek.co/2026/02/05/xiao...n-his-ev-in-18-months-battery-health-at-94-5/

Xiaomi is a garbage company. Don't use that as a benchmark on how other companies' product work. If you want to compare at least use NIO or BYD.

 

[PandaBear]

Charging issues is the #1 reason EV owners go back to ICE. It ain't the car.
You can find numbers that say 40% wanna go back to ICE and numbers that say 10%.
It's probably fair to say close to 100% of EV owners chose electric over ICE.

I own both; they both have their place. I humbly suggest you look at your use case before plunking down your hard earned cash.

If I were to buy another car today I would likely buy a gas car instead of EV or hybrid, nothing wrong with that just my use cases have changed. I no longer drive enough to make them cost effective and a gas car has a more predictable depreciation over the years. I can buy something that has fewer years and higher mile, or older but lower miles, instead of an EV or hybrid that would depreciate in years regardless of whether I drive it or not so I might as well drive it.

Maybe a well worn out Leaf for a cheap price, but then again maybe not even that, might as well just jump straight to a fun beater Miata or a big hunky SUV if I don't need the mpg.

 

[nobb]

If the NYC Parks dept is any indication, they sold their fleet of first gen priuses at gov auctions just before the pandemic. All were beaters, seen heavy use, and were functional.

This is irrelevant to the concern of long term calendar degradation of EV batteries. First gen prius and many Toyota hybrids use Ni-Mh batteries which withstand calendar aging much better than lithium ion.

In the long term, calendar aging is what really kills an EV battery. With an average annual loss of 2%, after 15 years an EV battery likely will have lost at least 30% capacity by then.

So IMO these articles showing <10% capacity loss on high mileage EV's are almost always irrelevant to average consumer driving habits because these high miles were all done in a short timeframe.

 

[jghall00]

IMO the problem with these reports of high mileage EVS still retaining 90%+ of their battery capacity is that it is usually on relatively new vehicles. It does not necessarily address the fact that Li-Ion also succumbs to calendar aging. I'd be curious under normal driving habits, how the battery holds up after 15-20+ years.

It varies substantially based on chemistry, usage, and storage conditions. For the vast majority of consumers, cycling is going to be the primary driver of degradation. Calendar aging is only a factor when the battery is stored for extended periods in high temps or at high voltages.

In the long term, calendar aging is what really kills an EV battery. With an average annual loss of 2%, after 15 years an EV battery likely will have lost at least 30% capacity by then.

That's not entirely correct. The loss is not always linear, as it varies with chemistry and storage conditions. For example, LFP cells degrade more slowly in storage than NMC, provided they aren't stored at high temperatures and voltages. So if you drop the charge to 50% and keep the temp in check, losses can be 1% per year. At lower temps and charge levels, it can be reduced even further.

Here's a research study that goes into detail regarding projected degradation. For the majority of consumers, it won't be an issue because they'll get well over 150,000 miles out of the battery, then they'll get probably get another vehicle. The batteries will either get recycled or deployed for grid storage.

 

[Pablo]

None of those even worst case in 15(!) years is particularly a strong negative factor.

 

[goblin]

This is irrelevant to the concern of long term calendar degradation of EV batteries. First gen prius and many Toyota hybrids use Ni-Mh batteries which withstand calendar aging much better than lithium ion.

In the long term, calendar aging is what really kills an EV battery. With an average annual loss of 2%, after 15 years an EV battery likely will have lost at least 30% capacity by then.

So IMO these articles showing <10% capacity loss on high mileage EV's are almost always irrelevant to average consumer driving habits because these high miles were all done in a short timeframe.

Good to know.
Then my only other reference is my friends' 2nd gen which they've been driving forever to this day, but it looks like this one is als using Ni-Mh batteries.

 

[nobb]

It varies substantially based on chemistry, usage, and storage conditions. For the vast majority of consumers, cycling is going to be the primary driver of degradation. Calendar aging is only a factor when the battery is stored for extended periods in high temps or at high voltages.


That's not entirely correct. The loss is not always linear, as it varies with chemistry and storage conditions. For example, LFP cells degrade more slowly in storage than NMC, provided they aren't stored at high temperatures and voltages. So if you drop the charge to 50% and keep the temp in check, losses can be 1% per year. At lower temps and charge levels, it can be reduced even further.

Here's a research study that goes into detail regarding projected degradation. For the majority of consumers, it won't be an issue because they'll get well over 150,000 miles out of the battery, then they'll get probably get another vehicle. The batteries will either get recycled or deployed for grid storage.

Calendar aging is very relevant for consumers as 150k miles is going to be roughly around the 10-15 year mark for most people. Calendar aging happens regardless of cycle times, and is only improve with proper storage.

Although that research study provides good info, it's not really relevant to an EV use case because I would consider a consumer application as an extreme environment. Spacecraft are operating under relatively steady state conditions with teams of scientists regularly monitoring and optimizing how the craft operates to maximize value. For any consumer application I'm going to assume the worst. Eg. clueless consumer who is regularly topping up the battery, not conditioning, and generally treating the vehicle as an appliance.

Good to know.
Then my only other reference is my friends' 2nd gen which they've been driving forever to this day, but it looks like this one is als using Ni-Mh batteries.

For hybrids, IMO Ni-MH is the superior battery chemistry due to robustness over Li-Ion. For PHEV, I would imagine the lifespan of the batteries to be even worse than pure EV because the battery capacities are much smaller so it's more likely that the battery is going through larger charge/discharge cycles vs the EV counterpart day to day. This is just going to stress the battery even further.

 

[jghall00]

Calendar aging is very relevant for consumers as 150k miles is going to be roughly around the 10-15 year mark for most people. Calendar aging happens regardless of cycle times, and is only improve with proper storage.

True, but as the study demonstrated, calendar aging can be substantially reduced by storing the battery properly. I frequently see questions regarding risks of charging to 100% and whether it's ok to use the full battery, so I think most consumers are gaining awareness of best practices. The exception are those with a lease. Many of them have the attitude of I'm getting everything I paid for and will daily charge to 100%, despite the fact that they're not using the full range. But even in that situation if the vehicle is being driven daily then it's not that harmful because there's a top buffer.

Although that research study provides good info, it's not really relevant to an EV use case because I would consider a consumer application as an extreme environment.[...]For any consumer application I'm going to assume the worst. Eg. clueless consumer who is regularly topping up the battery, not conditioning, and generally treating the vehicle as an appliance.

I referenced it for its thorough analysis of calendar aging, not because the use case mirrors consumer use. Modern EVs set a default daily charge limit to 80%. I think a minority of consumers bother changing it because the average daily commute is under 50 miles, so the 80% isn't really an issue if you're not super commuting. Preconditioning happens automatically. The BMS will limit current to and from the battery based on temps, charge state, etc. As I said, for most people losses due to cycling will exceed those due to calendar aging. relatively few people are buying an EV for it to sit for weeks on end.

For hybrids, IMO Ni-MH is the superior battery chemistry due to robustness over Li-Ion. For PHEV, I would imagine the lifespan of the batteries to be even worse than pure EV because the battery capacities are much smaller so it's more likely that the battery is going through larger charge/discharge cycles vs the EV counterpart day to day. This is just going to stress the battery even further.

Cycling losses in PHEVs can be mitigated by oversizing the battery and leaving a larger buffer, so the consumer sees 0% to 100% but the battery is only using 20% to 80%. I think this is the strategy GM adopted with the 2nd gen Volt, which only accessed 14 kWh of the total 18 kWh capacity.

 

[505kind]

This is irrelevant to the concern of long term calendar degradation of EV batteries. First gen prius and many Toyota hybrids use Ni-Mh batteries which withstand calendar aging much better than lithium ion.

In the long term, calendar aging is what really kills an EV battery. With an average annual loss of 2%, after 15 years an EV battery likely will have lost at least 30% capacity by then.

So IMO these articles showing <10% capacity loss on high mileage EV's are almost always irrelevant to average consumer driving habits because these high miles were all done in a short timeframe.

My 5th gen Prius uses Ni-mh

 

[jghall00]

So brought a 2023 Kia Niro EV home today. The vehicle has just over 85,000 miles on it. One of the first thing I did when I got home was measure the battery capacity using my OBD reader. Yes, I should have done it before signing the agreement, but I didn't realize it was coming home with me. It's showing over 97% capacity remaining. The charge limit was set to 100%, but I really have no way of knowing how long it was there or how often it was left there.

 

[DogLover]

That's a cool car. And with the battery at 97% it will probably last the life of the car. Give us a review of the car when you get a chance.

 

[RBT]

This falls under the category of ad hominem attack, specifically, appeal to motive. This person may be biased, therefore what they're saying can't be true.

The correct response is to find actual data supporting a different conclusion. I'm not aware of any studies that show degradation rates in liquid cooled batteries are high enough to render the vehicle unsuited for purpose within the average ownership period. That doesn't mean that information doesn't exist, just that I've not seen it. And believe me, I've done way too much reading on this subject matter. I have 45 kWh of LFP cells that power my home in conjunction with my panels. They're projected to last 10 to 20 years with my max .3 C-rate.

The biggest issue with fast charging and degradation was the heat, not the charging itself. Once manufacturers moved to actively cooled batteries, that issue is basically a non-issue for most models. There's still calendar aging and cycle life, especially for smaller batteries or fleet vehicles. But modern EV batteries are very stout and will likely outlast the owner's desire to keep the car. I'll likely hit 100K within four years with my Blazer EV. I'm already ready for an SS.

Not quite. In the rest of the world it is called common sense. You look at source to evaluate credibility and bias.

 

[mva]

This Ford Mach-e is pretty impressive:

315,000 miles and still at 92% of battery capacity!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sashal...over-300000-miles-on-his-ford-mustang-mach-e/

Sorry if it has already been posted.