How long do electric car batteries last?

[Astro14]

Fair enough. But if the author was a advocate for traditional, base load energy sources that foster American energy supremacy and enable the U.S. to dominate the extractive energy landscape, that would have altered your opinion of the content how?

It would have had more credibility, I think, if someone with an interest in seeing the entire vehicle type fail (rather than clearly desiring to see it succeed) found that battery life was substantially better than first believed.

Look, the study revealed a couple of things that we already knew - the adverse impacts of DC fast charging, and of going over 80% - and it found something I didn’t suspect - longer battery life among some vehicles.

Or should I say, slower decline among some vehicle than I would have thought.

What would have made it much more interesting to me, as a potential consumer, would be which manufacturers showed the slowest decline? Was that decline due to differences in use pattern? In the type of owner that manufacturer attracts? In the software differences that manage charging rate and State of Charge? I could see all three influencing rate of decline, but those weren’t specifically mentioned, and I would vey much have liked that detail.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

My 19 year old LR3 with 240K+ miles still gets the same range/MPG it did as new. Same with my KJ that's 20 years old with 233k on it, same with my JLU with 112k on it (once you account for the mods)...if EVs can't match that longevity I'm not interested. All on original drivetrain.

 

[ecotourist]

What is the "service life" of an EV if the battery still works? Or maybe they are saying an EV will last longer than an ICE?

According to YouTube videos, early Tesla Model S vehicles used as limos are still in good shape after 2 or 3 hundred thousand miles. They have had some repairs by then (the door handles seem to be a particular weak point), but that's not too surprising. So Model S Teslas do seem to have a long vehicle life. The batteries on these limos seem to need replacing around 250,000 miles. These batteries have been charged as fast as possible to 100% and then run down as low as possible several times a day - which wouldn't be very good for battery life. These limo companies replace the battery and keep going.

Model 3 Teslas seem to have a problem with their upper control arms. These parts will need replacing at some point and there seem to be better designed aftermarket replacements. Aside from that Model 3 Teslas may go a long way too.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It says the average EV battery will have 81.6% of it's capacity at 8 years. Further searching says an EV battery is considered dead when it will only charge to 70-80%. The EV is still usable just range reduced.

Useful. So what is the range of an EV at 70% battery? Does it have 70% of the range?

So I assume I am hot climate, and would get the 0.4% penalty. So that would be 2.7% a year, so would be at roughly 70% in 10 years. So is my car no longer of much use or?

 

[alarmguy]

Batteries in phones are, IMO, this way on purpose. It encourages / forces upgrades every 2-3 years for most people. No one, even the most hard-core, Greenpeace-type hippie, would tolerate a Prius needing battery replacements in that time frame or even twice as long.

I don’t know, I don’t think so. I would think cell phone batteries go through many more charge cycles than an electric vehicle would go through hence the long of life of an electric vehicle battery.
There is also more advanced technology in the car lithium battery, such as apparatus for Cooling.

None of this stuff can be sandwiched in something half the thickness of a deck of cards.
But I think the key is many, many cell phones. Use their entire charge or very significant chargeup every day and get recharged every night.
I would think that would not be the same for electric vehicles. Completely running down or significantly down the battery every day.

 

[Hall]

I don’t know, I don’t think so. I would think cell phone batteries go through many more charge cycles than an electric vehicle would go through hence the long of life of an electric vehicle battery.

It's all relative

 

[Torrid]

I don’t know, I don’t think so. I would think cell phone batteries go through many more charge cycles than an electric vehicle would go through hence the long of life of an electric vehicle battery.
There is also more advanced technology in the car lithium battery, such as apparatus for Cooling.

None of this stuff can be sandwiched in something half the thickness of a deck of cards.
But I think the key is many, many cell phones. Use their entire charge or very significant chargeup every day and get recharged every night.
I would think that would not be the same for electric vehicles. Completely running down or significantly down the battery every day.

Cooling management, size of battery, much more advanced battery management, there's a lot of factors.

 

[goblin]

One difference between phone and car batteries - phones carry more and more bloatware over time, which negatively impacts the battery life of their already not young batteries, creating the vicious cycle of a battery having to actually do more work while it's already degrading.

EVs don't carry more bloatware. They would if they carried me, as I get fatter and fatter with time, but in the grand scheme of things - they don't haul a heavier load at 200k miles than they do at 2k miles. Unless the motor's resistance gets worse with age or something, which I doubt.

 

[GrumpyCat]

It says the average EV battery will have 81.6% of it's capacity at 8 years. Further searching says an EV battery is considered dead when it will only charge to 70-80%. The EV is still usable just range reduced.

At 10 years my 2013 Model S 85 had 93% of it's original range.

 

[Ws6]

My EV battery won't last as long as an ICE engine, but it provides cost savings that equal it out.

 

[JeffKeryk]

At 10 years my 2013 Model S 85 had 93% of it's original range.

My uneducated guess is that's much better than most of the early cars.

 

[chris719]

My EV battery won't last as long as an ICE engine, but it provides cost savings that equal it out.

Are you sure about that? Nissan Leaf batteries last longer than some Hyundai/Kia engines . I don't think we're going to see 200k+ miles often on modern engines.

 

[chris719]

Batteries in phones are, IMO, this way on purpose. It encourages / forces upgrades every 2-3 years for most people. No one, even the most hard-core, Greenpeace-type hippie, would tolerate a Prius needing battery replacements in that time frame or even twice as long.

Nah, phone batteries are pushed to the absolute limit in the name of energy density. There is nowhere to hide any extra volume or overprovision, and they get charged and especially discharged at high burst (peak) rates vs their capacity. In fact, I cannot even purchase a battery that tests better than the iPhone Pro Max battery pack in the same volume at any price. I have tested hundreds if not thousands of packs and cells for medical devices.

 

[altaylar]

Hardly.

It’s called critical thinking - I read the entire article - and when I got to the end, I saw the byline. I doubt most of the respondents in this thread read the entire thing, and likely skimmed it. I am not finding fault with the data, or the methodology, though I dislike the car companies in question being “anonymized”. I think the article would have been more helpful had the data been detailed.

Further, much of the data wasn’t accessible - not the raw data - but only the conclusions that this author reached.

If you read a study on the relative risks of smoking, and found out the study was published by Reynolds Tobacco - would you accept the results prima facie?

I wouldn’t.

So, I accept the data in this article, and I said so, but I question the objectivity by one who is a stated “sustainable transportation and electric vehicles (EVs) thought leader, working on green fleet initiatives since 2008.”

Not an “appeal to motive” but a healthy skepticism.

conflict of interest is perhaps the major source of sceptisicm, and rightly so

 

[Ws6]

Are you sure about that? Nissan Leaf batteries last longer than some Hyundai/Kia engines . I don't think we're going to see 200k+ miles often on modern engines.

So far I am down about 15% on capacity at 39K miles in my EV6 GT, so I am presuming it will probably slow down some on that, but I'll be happy if I get 175K mi out of it. It's a battery. IT isn't going to last as long as a good ICE motor will, but the performance is awesome and the cost of ownership is nil.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I probably charge my phone too much

I know I do for a fact. I have a very bad habit of turning mine off at night and leaving it on charge the entire night when in fact it is probably 100% full on charged in less than a couple hours. YET, I have never had one go bad. Lucky I suppose just like I have never owned an oil burner vehicle. Pure luck.

 

[Pablo]

I know I do for a fact. I have a very bad habit of turning mine off at night and leaving it on charge the entire night when in fact it is probably 100% full on charged in less than a couple hours. YET, I have never had one go bad. Lucky I suppose just like I have never owned an oil burner vehicle. Pure luck.

My adult kids and wife run around at ~24% and don’t complain. Drives me nuts! Hahahaha

 

[GrumpyCat]

My uneducated guess is that's much better than most of the early cars.

My concern is how many assume all makes will have similar battery life. Yet we have seen Nissan stress the LEAF battery for better short term performance at the cost of service life. I don’t trust Madison Avenue to rate an EV’s range and protect the service life. At the moment all I trust is Tesla. Tesla is playing conservative, resisting pressure to configure a vehicle for long range over battery service life.

 

[oil pan 4]

What is the "service life" of an EV if the battery still works? Or maybe they are saying an EV will last longer than an ICE?

Probably assuming the average car lasts anywhere from 8 to 12 years.
My Nissan leaf battery is 11 years old and still gets the job done for 2 cents a mile.

 

[thastinger]

Probably assuming the average car lasts anywhere from 8 to 12 years.
My Nissan leaf battery is 11 years old and still gets the job done for 2 cents a mile.

I'm shifting the average then I suppose, have 6 vehicles and 2014 is the newest one. 98, 03, 04, 09, 13, 14