How good are snow tires??
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
... Also silica or similar abrasives mixed into in the rubber for ice traction.
Silica is sometimes used as a filler (reinforcing agent) in tread compounds, replacing some of the carbon black.
Silica tread compounds provide a benefit for winter traction primarily because they stay flexible at cold temperatures, not because of abrasive properties.
There is a product on the market that does tout ice traction from abrasives, however. It's called Green Diamond and they basically re-mold very hard silicium carbide granules into the surface of a tire. I'm not sure if it really works or not, though. ?
... Also silica or similar abrasives mixed into in the rubber for ice traction.
Silica is sometimes used as a filler (reinforcing agent) in tread compounds, replacing some of the carbon black.
Silica tread compounds provide a benefit for winter traction primarily because they stay flexible at cold temperatures, not because of abrasive properties.
There is a product on the market that does tout ice traction from abrasives, however. It's called Green Diamond and they basically re-mold very hard silicium carbide granules into the surface of a tire. I'm not sure if it really works or not, though. ?
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Originally Posted By: mpvue
remember, it's not just the TREAD of the winter tires, but the COMPOUND. they don't harden up like regular tires in the cold, they stay pliable.
This. 45F is the design inflection point. AS compounds exhibit dramatic loss of performance below this threshold and winters will experience accelerated wear above.
remember, it's not just the TREAD of the winter tires, but the COMPOUND. they don't harden up like regular tires in the cold, they stay pliable.
This. 45F is the design inflection point. AS compounds exhibit dramatic loss of performance below this threshold and winters will experience accelerated wear above.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
This. 45F is the design inflection point. AS compounds exhibit dramatic loss of performance below this threshold . . .
But at what point do they intersect? Do you have any links to performance testing or real data, because I often hear this sort of information thrown around but nothing to back it up.
Car and Driver tested two Michelin all-seasons and two Michelin winter tires and found that the all-seasons still outperformed the winter tires on dry and wet pavement at 23F.
Car and Driver - All-Season vs. Winter Tires
This. 45F is the design inflection point. AS compounds exhibit dramatic loss of performance below this threshold . . .
But at what point do they intersect? Do you have any links to performance testing or real data, because I often hear this sort of information thrown around but nothing to back it up.
Car and Driver tested two Michelin all-seasons and two Michelin winter tires and found that the all-seasons still outperformed the winter tires on dry and wet pavement at 23F.
Car and Driver - All-Season vs. Winter Tires
Originally Posted By: Rand
I realize you are exaggerating but there are no 4" wide snow tires.
that would equate to a p100/XX
Probably referring to tread width. A 155 tire could have a tread width of around 4".
I've had 205 tires with a tread width of only 6-1/4". Most have been around 6-3/4" though.
I realize you are exaggerating but there are no 4" wide snow tires.
that would equate to a p100/XX
Probably referring to tread width. A 155 tire could have a tread width of around 4".
I've had 205 tires with a tread width of only 6-1/4". Most have been around 6-3/4" though.
Originally Posted By: Superbuick96
Traction control seems to be a standard feature thesedays, just wondering is a 2wd car with trac. control, and snow tires a good alternative to a awd, or 4wd vehicle?
I'm no fan of traction control. I want to be able to modulate the wheelspin using the throttle to whatever I desire, which is often quite a bit in deeper snow. Traction control prevents that. A limited slip differential is ideal.
AWD/4WD with good tires is far more fun in the winter than 2WD. You still can't accelerate quickly in 2WD even with LSD and good tires. But I'd certainly take a 2WD on good tires in winter conditions over a 4WD on poor tires.
Traction control seems to be a standard feature thesedays, just wondering is a 2wd car with trac. control, and snow tires a good alternative to a awd, or 4wd vehicle?
I'm no fan of traction control. I want to be able to modulate the wheelspin using the throttle to whatever I desire, which is often quite a bit in deeper snow. Traction control prevents that. A limited slip differential is ideal.
AWD/4WD with good tires is far more fun in the winter than 2WD. You still can't accelerate quickly in 2WD even with LSD and good tires. But I'd certainly take a 2WD on good tires in winter conditions over a 4WD on poor tires.
Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: Rand
I realize you are exaggerating but there are no 4" wide snow tires.
that would equate to a p100/XX
Probably referring to tread width. A 155 tire could have a tread width of around 4".
I've had 205 tires with a tread width of only 6-1/4". Most have been around 6-3/4" though.
well I have yet to find one.. Wasnt trying to pick on it but
175/65R14 is about 5.5" tread width.
I cant think of too many vehicles that go much smaller than 175.. I suppose geo metro or ford festiva type thing.
but thats Off topic.
I paid extra for ws70's mainly because I wanted something with good ice performance and snow performance.
Like for instance tonight we had shizzle for 3 hours
thats freezing sleet rain and drizzle Roads looked fine.. boom fell on my butt in the driveway when I got out of car.
Originally Posted By: Rand
I realize you are exaggerating but there are no 4" wide snow tires.
that would equate to a p100/XX
Probably referring to tread width. A 155 tire could have a tread width of around 4".
I've had 205 tires with a tread width of only 6-1/4". Most have been around 6-3/4" though.
well I have yet to find one.. Wasnt trying to pick on it but
175/65R14 is about 5.5" tread width.
I cant think of too many vehicles that go much smaller than 175.. I suppose geo metro or ford festiva type thing.
but thats Off topic.
I paid extra for ws70's mainly because I wanted something with good ice performance and snow performance.
Like for instance tonight we had shizzle for 3 hours
thats freezing sleet rain and drizzle Roads looked fine.. boom fell on my butt in the driveway when I got out of car.
When you get snow tires the excuses that your co-irkers and other idiots in your life try to pull will carry less weight.
"Well there must be ice under that snow"
"They can't plow worth a darn"
"They need to use more salt"
"It's really getting bad out there"
"I didn't see it, must have been black ice"
"That guy in front of me stopped out of nowhere"
"My ABS went nuts and I still didn't stop"
"Well there must be ice under that snow"
"They can't plow worth a darn"
"They need to use more salt"
"It's really getting bad out there"
"I didn't see it, must have been black ice"
"That guy in front of me stopped out of nowhere"
"My ABS went nuts and I still didn't stop"
The only time the 4WD (with Bridgestone Revo 2 A/Ts) is superior to the FWD manual xB with the studless winter tires is if the snow gets so deep that the xB starts beaching/snowplowing on unplowed/rutted snow-otherwise the xB is MUCH SAFER!! The big Ram 4X4 does NOT go out in ice storms!
Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
This. 45F is the design inflection point. AS compounds exhibit dramatic loss of performance below this threshold . . .
But at what point do they intersect? Do you have any links to performance testing or real data, because I often hear this sort of information thrown around but nothing to back it up.
Car and Driver tested two Michelin all-seasons and two Michelin winter tires and found that the all-seasons still outperformed the winter tires on dry and wet pavement at 23F.
Car and Driver - All-Season vs. Winter Tires
I suspect this is either something the tire industry came up with for marketing, or is a loose rule derived from an unscientific "average" of all tires, at the point in time that they came up with it.
I suspect in reality, dealing only with cold, dry pavement, you will find that all-season tires will have a large range in temperatures, below which point their performance is diminshed to an unacceptable level. Likewise, there'll be a range of temperatures for winter tires for the temperature point beyond which a given tire will have reduced performance. An "intersection" will vary depending on the two tires (all-season and winter) being compared.
One of our friends uses all-seasons. Their OEM all-seasons were pretty much useless from freezing point down. They replaced them in short order with a better all-season set (I don't know which it was), and in the dry, are great to at least -20C.
Waiting for the one person here who has inside knowledge to chime in on this...
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
This. 45F is the design inflection point. AS compounds exhibit dramatic loss of performance below this threshold . . .
But at what point do they intersect? Do you have any links to performance testing or real data, because I often hear this sort of information thrown around but nothing to back it up.
Car and Driver tested two Michelin all-seasons and two Michelin winter tires and found that the all-seasons still outperformed the winter tires on dry and wet pavement at 23F.
Car and Driver - All-Season vs. Winter Tires
I suspect this is either something the tire industry came up with for marketing, or is a loose rule derived from an unscientific "average" of all tires, at the point in time that they came up with it.
I suspect in reality, dealing only with cold, dry pavement, you will find that all-season tires will have a large range in temperatures, below which point their performance is diminshed to an unacceptable level. Likewise, there'll be a range of temperatures for winter tires for the temperature point beyond which a given tire will have reduced performance. An "intersection" will vary depending on the two tires (all-season and winter) being compared.
One of our friends uses all-seasons. Their OEM all-seasons were pretty much useless from freezing point down. They replaced them in short order with a better all-season set (I don't know which it was), and in the dry, are great to at least -20C.
Waiting for the one person here who has inside knowledge to chime in on this...
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